So, if it’s bug*ered, why aren’t farms for sale?

egbert · May 2, 2019

silverfox said:
AHA rents are supposed to be set on the income potential Of the farm, so if subs go, then I’d expect some downward reviews at arbitration.
Quite frankly, as a tenant, I don’t know what some owner occupiers are messing at, if they aren’t making a reasonable living. The rent I pay, would be a good living for someone .

that';s working on the assumption that the asset is paid for, and not expected to be earning.

Clive said:
Shows sone serious level of bad business to loose money on owned land !

there would be AHA landlords who, when major repairs come round, must have to dig deep.
If they're debt free, then they plunder the war chest...if not.....

I do my utmost to ensure I'm a profitable tenant every year,
although I know of others -quoted elsewhere here too- who push their landlords to spend the rent on the farm.
In some cases, asking for capital expenditure they could never afford if the property was theirs, and many times the annual rent.

I would prefer if my landlord saw doing business with me as a means of income, rather than a (possibly resented) expenditure.

davieh3350 · May 2, 2019

le bon paysan said:
This was me.
I got paid out of an AHA.
You have no idea how good it feels to bring up my kids in MY home, bought and paid for.
No land agent to deal with. MINE.
it was a huge decision to leave and the abuse from family had me in a right state. As I'm writing this I can see my cows paddock grazing, the birds are singing and I cant here any vehicles.
I so wish I could've done it years earlier.

The thought of not hearing all the road noise is one of my main reasons for wanting to quit my ground.

It took me quite a while to realise how much I hate it.

7610 super q · May 2, 2019

egbert said:
that';s working on the assumption that the asset is paid for, and not expected to be earning.

there would be AHA landlords who, when major repairs come round, must have to dig deep.
If they're debt free, then they plunder the war chest...if not.....

I do my utmost to ensure I'm a profitable tenant every year,
although I know of others -quoted elsewhere here too- who push their landlords to spend the rent on the farm.
In some cases, asking for capital expenditure they could never afford if the property was theirs, and many times the annual rent.

I would prefer if my landlord saw doing business with me as a means of income, rather than a (possibly resented) expenditure.

First sensible post about AHA tenancies I've seen on TFF since I joined 5 years ago.
Most on here seam to think that their landlord is there to be gold mined.

Billboy1 · May 2, 2019

le bon paysan said:
This was me.
I got paid out of an AHA.
You have no idea how good it feels to bring up my kids in MY home, bought and paid for.
No land agent to deal with. MINE.
it was a huge decision to leave and the abuse from family had me in a right state. As I'm writing this I can see my cows paddock grazing, the birds are singing and I cant here any vehicles.
I so wish I could've done it years earlier.

Do you mind me asking did you initiate the proceedings?

Bertram · May 2, 2019

egbert said:
That's a pretty disparaging description of ...well, me?

The big question for predatory b*stards like me is where to find the cash to pick up some of the broken pieces!

See, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head right there. We’re all tightening the belt and waiting for them over the fence to sell up first. Buy at a knockdown price, expand the old estate, and live happily ever after.

Trouble is, no one wants to be the first.

DRC · May 2, 2019

I’m on a full

7610 super q said:
First sensible post about AHA tenancies I've seen on TFF since I joined 5 years ago.
Most on here seam to think that their landlord is there to be gold mined.

I’m on a full repairing tenancy, so landlords don’t spend much if anything . They are also trustees, headed by a Tory peer, keeping their wealth in off shore trusts. So I don’t loose much sleep over them.

egbert · May 2, 2019

7610 super q said:
First sensible post about AHA tenancies I've seen on TFF since I joined 5 years ago.
Most on here seam to think that their landlord is there to be gold mined.

ta.

As it goes, we rent out odd stuff, inc domestic.
and that's becoming a feckin nightmare.
It's easy, even with rents that make my eyes water to think it's just for a house, for us as landlords to spend a whole years rent on one fairly minor job.
'A set of windows along the back wall guv?' ...bosh, years rent gone.

I'm minded of this when I hear the Corbynistas rant about wicked landlords.

Clive · May 2, 2019

A landlord is not forced to own land !

My heart is not going to bleed for anyone with an valuable asset, They should think themselves lucky ! I certainly do !

If they borrow to buy that asset then that’s their choice as well

If you can’t make money out of your investment then sell it ‘ !

If you can’t make money out of your trade (farming) then stop doing it !

None of this is compulsory you all know

le bon paysan · May 2, 2019

Billboy1 said:
Do you mind me asking did you initiate the proceedings?

PM.

7610 super q · May 2, 2019

Clive said:
A landlord is not forced to own land !

My heart is not going to bleed for anyone with an valuable asset, They should think themselves lucky ! I certainly do !

If they borrow to buy that asset then that’s their choice as well

If you can’t make money out of your investment then sell it ‘ !

If you can’t make money out of yurt trade (farming) then stop doing it !

None of this is compulsory you all know

You'll get bugger all for the land with a sitting tenant.
You won't get rid of an AHA tenant without compensation, possibly up to 50%.
Either way, you lose 50% of your investment, if you decide to sell.

Weasel · May 2, 2019

livestock 1 said:
Hill farms have been the first to see a drop in land values around 4% was the quoted figure for 2018. Not surprising as these types of farms are most reliant on subs as their production is at the less profitable end of the scale with often limited options for effective improved profitability investment potential. What’s interesting is that we are still at the stage where the land value drop is hard to gauge. It’s noticeable that farms of this type aren’t shifting as swiftly or not at all indicating that they are currently overvalued so the drop in values could be actually much higher. With many farmers not in too much of a hurry to sell it’s too soon to put a figure on. With the prospect of land not showing the increase in asset value it has previously shown combined with less earning potential certainty via subs and the prospect that it could be bought for the same price or less in the future it’s looking like uncertain times yet again. Remember this is still hill land I’m talking about. Looked at a farm fairly recently around 350 acres hill grazing for 1 million ish. You have got to wonder how it’s worth as much. No chance of buying it with no money and paying it off through its own earnings

Forestrys keeping hill land values up

Weasel · May 2, 2019

Clive said:
And this is why subs need to go

Maybe for you arable farmers. Hill farmers need support and to be honest are more important than arable

le bon paysan · May 2, 2019

7610 super q said:
You'll get bugger all for the land with a sitting tenant.
You won't get rid of an AHA tenant without compensation, possibly up to 50%.
Either way, you lose 50% of your investment, if you decide to sell.

Statutory payout is 7 years rent. + more if they can get planning.
It won't buy you a farm in the UK.

DRC · May 2, 2019

7610 super q said:
You'll get bugger all for the land with a sitting tenant.
You won't get rid of an AHA tenant without compensation, possibly up to 50%.
Either way, you lose 50% of your investment, if you decide to sell.

Depends at what level the landlord invested at. Our estate has been owned by and sold to, mostly insurance companies , such as the Mercantile or once, the land improvement company ( a government quango), who bought in 1992, then promptly offered the outlying tenants the chance to buy at £1k acre with any milk quota thrown in.
Despite wanting too, a number of us in the core of the estate, never had the opportunity to buy. They have since sold some for development and at the price they actually bought at, must be getting a reasonable return.
What I’m saying is, they bought land with tenants on it, at a cheap price, so can’t complain if they now had to buy us out, to realise full market value.

DRC · May 2, 2019

Weasel said:
Maybe for you arable farmers. Hill farmers need support and to be honest are more important than arable

Not if the environmentalists get their way. Even radio Shropshire were doing a piece today, about needing to eat less beef and lamb to save the planet. Re wilding and trees, might be your future.

Weasel · May 2, 2019

silverfox said:
Not if the environmentalists get their way. Even radio Shropshire were doing a piece today, about needing to eat less beef and lamb to save the planet. Re wilding and trees, might be your future.

Houses will be arable grounds future

Cvx1170 · May 2, 2019

Got a AHA landlord that makes my life difficult, so I leave for free, dont know how you get them to pay compo?

Weasel · May 2, 2019

Cvx1170 said:
Got a AHA landlord that makes my life difficult, so I leave for free, dont know how you get them to pay compo?

DO not! Leave for free. You hold the cards

DRC · May 2, 2019

Weasel said:
Houses will be arable grounds future

Maybe some of it, but not here. Our village has been downgraded from a development hub, as Shropshire council prefer more houses to be built in the towns. House building in Shrewsbury has gone mad. Just a shame the infrastructure like hospitals can’t cope.

DRC · May 2, 2019

Cvx1170 said:
Got a AHA landlord that makes my life difficult, so I leave for free, dont know how you get them to pay compo?

Is it @7610 super q

So, if it’s bug*ered, why aren’t farms for sale?

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