AB15 2 year legume fallow

[teslacoils]

I take it your mid tier agreement ends 31 Dec 2022? And that you will in your next mid tier application use AB6 in place of AB15, am I correct in my interpretation?

Yes.

Although if they don't buck up and pay me then it won't even be a consideration.

 

[Hampton]

It’s on land reinstated after a gravel pit, which is very hard to grow on. Hoping this will add a bit of OM and nutrients.

Good luck. We have land like that which we got back in 1990. Spent most of its time in grass since then. Every time I try to grow a combinable on it I get angry with the yield and put it back into grass!

 

[TomO]

Official confirmation:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481691780194222086

I’d seen this and as we have some ab6 thought it sounded good. I’ve spoken to the rpa about it (as i would have liked it in writing before doing it) and they had to look into it. They have just got back to me and said ab6 is not allowed to have a cover crop on it.

 

[BenAdamsAgri]

I’d seen this and as we have some ab6 thought it sounded good. I’ve spoken to the rpa about it (as i would have liked it in writing before doing it) and they had to look into it. They have just got back to me and said ab6 is not allowed to have a cover crop on it.

Did you specify that the stubble would remain and the cover would be established without damage to said stubble?

 

[Clive]

Broadcast a cover crop?

If so then yes, the question was put to DEFRA by another forum member and they replied that it was fine. The stubble needs to be retained, hence drilling would not in my opinion be suitable. What mix would work and timing it infront of a good rain are all issues, along with any permitted weed control options. But at worst it would be some extra bird food. At best a valuable carbon sponge.

zero till the cover would retain stubble and give cover crop a much better chance of success that broadcast


any max you can do of this ? seriously considering putting 25% of the farm into it ……… or maybe 100% if input prices don’t sort themselves out soon

 

[TomO]

Did you specify that the stubble would remain and the cover would be established without damage to said stubble?

No i didnt, just said direct drilled or broardcast.

 

[teslacoils]

I’d seen this and as we have some ab6 thought it sounded good. I’ve spoken to the rpa about it (as i would have liked it in writing before doing it) and they had to look into it. They have just got back to me and said ab6 is not allowed to have a cover crop on it.

I'd query it. Typically these options list things that are prohibited, with everything else being allowed.

Counterintuitive to their policy goals.

 

[teslacoils]

zero till the cover would retain stubble and give cover crop a much better chance of success that broadcast


any max you can do of this ? seriously considering putting 25% of the farm into it ……… or maybe 100% if input prices don’t sort themselves out soon

Previously it was not limited. However the wording is that you're required to put it back into the rotation, so I'd say 50 percent. In any case, if you didn't it would become a groundsel disaster.

 

[Neddy flanders]

zero till the cover would retain stubble and give cover crop a much better chance of success that broadcast


any max you can do of this ? seriously considering putting 25% of the farm into it ……… or maybe 100% if input prices don’t sort themselves out soon

Hold on? wheat is £220 and you're thinking of setting the farm aside?
what happened to your idea of growing a crop with zero inputs to achieve say 7 t/ha?

 

[Grass And Grain]

zero till the cover would retain stubble and give cover crop a much better chance of success that broadcast


any max you can do of this ? seriously considering putting 25% of the farm into it ……… or maybe 100% if input prices don’t sort themselves out soon

AB6 Enhanced Overwinter Stubble, so need to follow a cereal crop (or rape??). So max 50%?

50% stewardship, 50% first wheat is attractive. Suppose establishing a cc after late cut wheat is tricky, unless establish some in spring.

Seems to be a question mark if cc is allowed on AB6.

We went with AB11 (rare arable weeds, corn marigolds count!), then a first cereal. A bit unpredictable what weeds are going to grow. Good cover of fat hen on some soils, but natural weed germination doesn't give enough cover/biomass on the pure sand land. Next year I might establish a cover after harvest (within the rules, as the AB11 doesn't start until the following spring), then AB11 the following spring).

AB15 is 2 years, so not able to get 50% first wheat. Things like AB1 (mainly clover + vetch) are rotational, so could theoretically rotate it annually, but seed isn't cheap and establishment can be tricky.

I asked Janet Hughes for a good 1 year stewardship cover crop type option. Janet was going to put this to her team.

 

[TomO]

I'd query it. Typically these options list things that are prohibited, with everything else being allowed.

Counterintuitive to their policy goals.

Yes i think i’ll give them a ring back tomorrow about it. Establishing it without disturbing the stubble. Like you say theres nothing to specifically say you cant do it.

 

[Feldspar]

I’d seen this and as we have some ab6 thought it sounded good. I’ve spoken to the rpa about it (as i would have liked it in writing before doing it) and they had to look into it. They have just got back to me and said ab6 is not allowed to have a cover crop on it.

I'm using those Twitter replies as official confirmation. Janet Hughes is pretty much as senior as you can get so it's not as if they can say it came from a confused newbie. As @teslacoils said, it does not prohibit establishing a cover crop. It just says retain the stubble. You could argue "stubble" involves standing dead stalks, and you might say these get knocked over when you drill a cover crop, but that's why I asked. Tbh it would be dumb if they didn't allow it and would be somewhat of a PR own goal.

 

[Feldspar]

zero till the cover would retain stubble and give cover crop a much better chance of success that broadcast


any max you can do of this ? seriously considering putting 25% of the farm into it ……… or maybe 100% if input prices don’t sort themselves out soon

We have half the farm in this option. Difficult autumns mean this is the first year we've carried out the plan, but this year we have all wheat in the cropped land. Nobbles black-grass. The biggest problem that I didn't foresee was groundsel which I let seed a couple of times. Partly not being on the ball enough, and last year just because it seeded before mid May when I was allowed to spray off for black-grass.

 

[teslacoils]

I've a bloody flush of groundsel which will be too early for the (expensive) roundup.

 

[Grass And Grain]

How about broadcasting some clover seed, etc pre-harvest?

 

[Feldspar]

I've a bloody flush of groundsel which will be too early for the (expensive) roundup.

I have a wardrobe full of t-shirts. Last year I had to put a 2nd dose of glyphosate on in the summer too because more of the stuff was appearing. At last year's prices that was a pain, this it would be an costly pain. I think the cover crop established mid May would stop the late spring groundsel though?

 

[teslacoils]

How about broadcasting some clover seed, etc pre-harvest?

That's fine. However you have to be careful with the destructing of any bg timing.

 

[teslacoils]

I have a wardrobe full of t-shirts. Last year I had to put a 2nd dose of glyphosate on in the summer too because more of the stuff was appearing. At last year's prices that was a pain, this it would be an costly pain. I think the cover crop established mid May would stop the late spring groundsel though?

Unsure. Tin hat on time, but groundsel causes me zero issues in the rotation, so should I really care?

 

[Grass And Grain]

That's fine. However you have to be careful with the destructing of any bg timing.

We talking about AB6? Haven't used that option on our farm, but think you're not supposed to pre-harvest glyphosate. Or did I misunderstand what you were meaning?

 

[Feldspar]

Unsure. Tin hat on time, but groundsel causes me zero issues in the rotation, so should I really care?

I know it's not a big yield robber, but it's annoyingly difficult to kill in wheat. Like Broadway / Palio doesn't kill it (found that out last year), nor does Atlantis, and it just seems to continue to germinate through the season. Isn't killed by the old favourites like CMPP and Starane. Metsulfuron will do it, but struggles a bit when it's big. I ended up putting two doses of metsulfuron and Palio last year in some fields. Not a big expense, just a pain. Zypar is my backup option I think. Ultimately it won't stop me doing what I'm doing again though.