Bazadaise vs blonde bulls

[Agrivator]

What type of cattle would you consider thick skinned and suitable for outwintering?

The type that doesn't loose weight or underperform when outwintered, which from your earlier post isn't Bazadaise.

Any decent stockman knows that:

1. Thinner- skinned cattle generally produce better butcher's cattle at slaughter.

2. Thinner-skinned cattle that are outwintered need and therefore deserve better feeding to avoid them losing too much condition.

3. The extra feed that thinner-skinned cattle need if outwintered is considerably cheaper but often more work and squalor than the alternative of inwintering.

4. Blondes are the ideal beef animal, even better than Limousins, but they are not too popular because they are particularly difficult to finish.

 

[Davy_g]

Www.ballygowanblondes.co.uk

A little about my herd. Not fair to comment re other breeds that I have seen nothing off.

 

[M-J-G]

Any decent stockman knows that:

1. Thinner- skinned cattle generally produce better butcher's cattle at slaughter.

2. Thinner-skinned cattle that are outwintered need and therefore deserve better feeding to avoid them losing too much condition.

3. The extra feed that thinner-skinned cattle need if outwintered is considerably cheaper but often more work and squalor than the alternative of inwintering.

4. Blondes are the ideal beef animal, even better than Limousins, but they are not too popular because they are particularly difficult to finish.

Apart from point 1, I think this post is a personal best of yours for not making sense and self contradictions.

Amongst the mist and fog, I pick up that you agree that thin skinned cattle need extra nutrition when outwintered.
Which for me, makes them a no no, and renders them unsuitable.

PS. Lim isn't globally very popular, it is more a EUROP animal so isn't really much to compare anything to.

 

[fraz]

Thanks for the tag @Hesstondriver
We keep pedigree Blondes alongside a mixed suckler herd.
A Blonde will certainly put some shape into your calves, we have a couple of Angus x cows (dairy bred) and their calves are always very good and often the first to finish. Over in Australia Blonde x Angus is becoming a very popular cross. And I think someone on here criss crosses Blonde and Angus, could be @Extreme Optimist?? Apologies if not.
Blondes are pretty hardy, and certainly aren't thin skinned! They don't have a big fluffy fine coat like some breeds but rather have a very coarse dense hair that lies flatter (makes soaping up at shows trickier). We farm at over 1000ft in the Peak District and although don't outwinter we quite often keep cows and calves out until Christmas, if ground conditions allow. I know of a large Blonde herd in Staffordshire who outwinters.
I've no experience in Bazadaise, but having seen some out and about, I would say they are a lot smaller framed animal than a Blonde. A Blonde will therefore produce a bigger framed animal, whilst still being easy calving.
There will be a good selection of bulls in the H&H online sale, or I can give you contact details of local herds if you prefer.

I was hoping to go to that sale at Carlisle on the 9th it's no going to be a easy decision ?

 

[fraz]

Theres no much shelter here for the winter

 

[Extreme Optimist]

Thanks for the tag @Hesstondriver
We keep pedigree Blondes alongside a mixed suckler herd.
A Blonde will certainly put some shape into your calves, we have a couple of Angus x cows (dairy bred) and their calves are always very good and often the first to finish. Over in Australia Blonde x Angus is becoming a very popular cross. And I think someone on here criss crosses Blonde and Angus, could be @Extreme Optimist?? Apologies if not.
Blondes are pretty hardy, and certainly aren't thin skinned! They don't have a big fluffy fine coat like some breeds but rather have a very coarse dense hair that lies flatter (makes soaping up at shows trickier). We farm at over 1000ft in the Peak District and although don't outwinter we quite often keep cows and calves out until Christmas, if ground conditions allow. I know of a large Blonde herd in Staffordshire who outwinters.
I've no experience in Bazadaise, but having seen some out and about, I would say they are a lot smaller framed animal than a Blonde. A Blonde will therefore produce a bigger framed animal, whilst still being easy calving.
There will be a good selection of bulls in the H&H online sale, or I can give you contact details of local herds if you prefer.

Yes, you are right. I find that adding Angus blood means the Blondes finish much more quickly. I hasten to add that this comes from the guy who fattens them, I only sell store. I also find that with the addition of Angus, the cows remain in good condition on a forage only diet - even the cows that calve in the Autumn/Winter (I calve AYR) maintain condition.

 

[Agrivator]

Any decent stockman knows that:

1. Thinner- skinned cattle generally produce better butcher's cattle at slaughter.

2. Thinner-skinned cattle that are outwintered need and therefore deserve better feeding to avoid them losing too much condition.

3. The extra feed that thinner-skinned cattle need if outwintered is considerably cheaper but often more work and squalor than the alternative of inwintering.

4. Blondes are the ideal beef animal, even better than Limousins, but they are not too popular because they are particularly difficult to finish.

Apart from point 1, I think this post is a personal best of yours for not making sense and self contradictions.

Amongst the mist and fog, I pick up that you agree that thin skinned cattle need extra nutrition when outwintered.
Which for me, makes them a no no, and renders them unsuitable.

PS. Lim isn't globally very popular, it is more a EUROP animal so isn't really much to compare anything to.

You really don't seem to understand what farming is all about.

As an extreme example, a Highland cow under poor nutritional and environmental conditions, will certainly outwinter better than a Limousin cross cow.

But the Limousin cross cow has the potential to produce an infinitely better calf (£800 v £400 at weaning?) and so any sensible stockman will know that she needs and deserves £150 or so of extra feeding to sustain her extra output.

What part of that logic do you not understand?

 

[Optimus]

I always had issues with putting Angus over blonde cross cows no idea why.also blonde takes more finishing but very good carcase. Used to have a piedmontese? Italian thing also similar to a blonde

 

[fraz]

Went and had a look at this young bull hopefully going to go bk up and have a better look

 

[M-J-G]

You really don't seem to understand what farming is all about.

As an extreme example, a Highland cow under poor nutritional and environmental conditions, will certainly outwinter better than a Limousin cross cow.

But the Limousin cross cow has the potential to produce an infinitely better calf (£800 v £400 at weaning?) and so any sensible stockman will know that she needs and deserves £150 or so of extra feeding to sustain her extra output.

What part of that logic do you not understand?

Oh dear, you're all over the place with this, and you miss my point by a country mile again ?‍

It's as if any point I make annoys you so much that you aren't reading properly before replying. Next time read it again.

What is your control group in that comparison?

 

[AGN76]

Hi I am looking for a young bull 14 to 18 months old and really fancy a blonde or a bazadaise I am just looking for other people's opinions on them nearly all my stock is wintered outside and currently run a nice Angus bull ( I will be keeping him as well) and can't fault him just wanting a bit more shape in my calves

What breed cows are they? (Sorry if you've already said)

 

[fraz]

Meanly angus and British blues and limmys most out of friesian

 

[Agrivator]

Oh dear, you're all over the place with this, and you miss my point by a country mile again ?‍

It's as if any point I make annoys you so much that you aren't reading properly before replying. Next time read it again.

What is your control group in that comparison?

I still don't think you are a livestock farmer, or have any appreciation of the fact that any cow is able and suitable to be outwintered if it is fed according to its needs.

And in case you don't have much practical experience, it is worth noting that many Galloway and Highland cattle on hill farms and crofts were housed during winter to provide milk for the family as well as for their calves. And many were fed on bent hay, which I guess you haven't heard of.

 

[M-J-G]

I still don't think you are a livestock farmer, or have any appreciation of the fact that any cow is able and suitable to be outwintered if it is fed according to its needs.

And in case you don't have much practical experience, it is worth noting that many Galloway and Highland cattle on hill farms and crofts were housed during winter to provide milk for the family as well as for their calves. And many were fed on bent hay, which I guess you haven't heard of.

And you still don't explain what the control in your theory was!

It's up to you what you believe about if I keep stock or not, I don't justify myself to anyone, that assumption does render you incapable of judging yet another situation.
Quite a few of my fellow farmers on here know me pretty well, they'll have a good chuckle at that, thanks

I on the other hand have no doubt that you are a farmer..... there are a lot in our industry who come across like you do.
To me, if someone like yourself doesn't recognise me as a farmer, that can only be a good thing for me. Thanks again

Back to the topic, you'll outwinter a HGM Holstein if you are prepared to haul her enough feeding, but that doesn't mean it makes sense or that it's profitable to keep her outwintered. The Holstein is just an extreme example of a high maintenance cow, just in case that confuses you!
My point (and I'm sorry to have to make it again and again) is that plenty of cows are capable of outwintering without needing extra feeding over and above that if they were housed, thus making them suitable for that job, so I see no point in keeping one that needs extra.

If your cows need extra attention and care to keep them performing over a winter outside than it would if they were housed, I'd suggest they aren't a cow that's suitable for that job, because I certainly wouldn't be spending extra to feed a cow outside when there are plenty of choices of breeds or strains within breeds that will do it at no extra cost with no compromise on performance.
Others may be bothered at that type of
charade, but I'm not.

If keeping a cow that needs extra expenditure for her environment is your idea of stockmanship then you've confirmed what is already figured.
Any clown can throw money at a system to make it work, I prefer to use a system that works without extra cost to simply do the basics.

What's the significance of a croft house cow to this situation?
Is that you showing off how much you know about a part of the industry that is of little or no relevance to today's farming methods.

 

[fraz]

Hi just a wee update decided to try a bazadaise bull picked this young bull up last week

 

[AGN76]

Hi just a wee update decided to try a bazadaise bull picked this young bull up last week

That's a hell of a cow behind him!

 

[Whitepeak]

Just sold the first of last yrs cross breds on Monday at Bakewell. Two Blonde cross bulls, one out of a HerXHol born 28/4/19, the other out of an AAxHol born 3/5/19. The Her weighed 586kg, the AA 644kg (market weights). Weaned Nov, been on hay and 18%rearer through winter, then adlib barley/rearer mix for 6wks. Can't fault the Blonde cross native for performance.

 

[crofteress]

Great looking bull you have found. My baz bull wintered half in half out North West coast highlands, very exposed .

 

[fraz]

That's a hell of a cow behind him!

I can't claim that 1 sadly that picture was taken before I got the bull home

 

[matthew]

We have a few two year old Bazadaise bulls for sale. Sensibly priced.
Snapped in the field, this morning.

Bravoxin 10 as calves. BVD screen last year - herd is clear.