Bull calves

[Sandpit Farm]

How do I persuade someone to set up a little bull calf enterprise?

The problem we have always had is the big companies will take the best calves or will make promises and then not collect for 2 weeks - cost falls to us. I'd much rather set up an agreement with someone locally who could take everything. Various neighbours are having the same issue, although one is Spring block calving with natural service so there are little tiddly calves to consider for them.

How have others tackled this? By all means PM if you prefer.

 

[Sprig]

How do I persuade someone to set up a little bull calf enterprise?

The problem we have always had is the big companies will take the best calves or will make promises and then not collect for 2 weeks - cost falls to us. I'd much rather set up an agreement with someone locally who could take everything. Various neighbours are having the same issue, although one is Spring block calving with natural service so there are little tiddly calves to consider for them.

How have others tackled this? By all means PM if you prefer.

I can't help in terms of taking everything but I am planning of doing a bit of small scale calf rearing next year (probably ready to take our first lot in spring). The plan is to try it out on a small scale and then expand from there if it is going well. PM me if you might have some calves we would be interested in. I think we are probably v close to you.

 

[Zippy768]

How do I persuade someone to set up a little bull calf enterprise?

The problem we have always had is the big companies will take the best calves or will make promises and then not collect for 2 weeks - cost falls to us. I'd much rather set up an agreement with someone locally who could take everything. Various neighbours are having the same issue, although one is Spring block calving with natural service so there are little tiddly calves to consider for them.

How have others tackled this? By all means PM if you prefer.

What breeds are we talking?
PM me as well if you like. We are in Shaftesbury

 

[Bald Rick]

How do I persuade someone to set up a little bull calf enterprise?

The problem we have always had is the big companies will take the best calves or will make promises and then not collect for 2 weeks - cost falls to us. I'd much rather set up an agreement with someone locally who could take everything. Various neighbours are having the same issue, although one is Spring block calving with natural service so there are little tiddly calves to consider for them.

How have others tackled this? By all means PM if you prefer.

Give them away free but have a matrix built in to the agreement so that if he gets rid of them at a certain age, you get £x or £y or if he finishes them you get an agreed sum - say what you feel the calf value was when you gave them away.
Takes a lot of trust but it also takes the stress out of the job on both sides

 

[Farmer_1994]

can’t say we’ve ever had that problem as our animal welfare regulations don’t allow us to sell/transport bull calves before 10 days old. Most our bulls leave at 2 weeks because of it. I would think an agreement like the one that @Bald Rick is suggesting would be a way forward.

 

[Sandpit Farm]

What breeds are we talking?
PM me as well if you like. We are in Shaftesbury

It'd be mainly black and whites and angus heifers. There's a market for the decent blues and the angus steers. The neighbour would have big batches of Jersey X kiwi bulls and Jersey X Angus. To be honest though if there was an innovative agreement to come up with that would work, I am interested to know of others who are doing something interesting. There are people with sheds but no cattle experience, there are people who want to get started but have no sheds... surely we could tee something up?!

I'm thinking
- create a set price for all calves on the basis that it leaves profit for the rearer but they take ALL calves.
- Some sort of profit share (but who puts the capital in for the inputs?)
- What happens on a TB front.

 

[Sandpit Farm]

Give them away free but have a matrix built in to the agreement so that if he gets rid of them at a certain age, you get £x or £y or if he finishes them you get an agreed sum - say what you feel the calf value was when you gave them away.
Takes a lot of trust but it also takes the stress out of the job on both sides

They front those costs? You just take a cut £/kg or £/hd. I like this, do you know anyone who does it?

 

[tr250]

Am I being thick but in the times of sexed semen why are black and white bull calves not a rare beast

 

[Sid]

What happens on a TB front

Biggest issue out there!

Am I being thick but in the times of sexed semen why are black and white bull calves not a rare beast

Some of us use a stock bull. Which testicle has the male semen? Near side or off side

 

[tr250]

Biggest issue out there!


Some of us use a stock bull. Which testicle has the male semen? Near side or off side

I’m not a dairy farmer never have been myself but why wouldn’t you put your heifers and an odd few cows to make numbers up to sexed semen and then run beef bulls over cows where conception rates will be lower. Beef calves seem to be a good trade in our local market report

 

[Sid]

I’m not a dairy farmer never have been myself but why wouldn’t you put your heifers and an odd few cows to make numbers up to sexed semen and then run beef bulls over cows where conception rates will be lower. Beef calves seem to be a good trade in our local market report

Because they are out in the field on away ground.
Majority of cows go on to sexed as well.

Welcome to the joys of tb!

 

[Bald Rick]

They front those costs? You just take a cut £/kg or £/hd. I like this, do you know anyone who does it?

Everyone likes something for "free" .......

I would keep it very simple and take an agreed fixed sum off the rearer when he moves the animal on either to slaughter or to a finisher. It isn't going to be big bucks but you don't carry much risk as the animal is away once you have the passport.
Trust is key.

 

[ImLost]

I have come close to setting up a calf rearing enterprise based on taking all of a dairys calves.
The issue with this is, I often find people want to charge for the good stuff/sell them elsewhere, and palm the crap on to you for free. If I had an agreement it would be to take all, and on the understanding that the decent calf that is worth something is paying for the keep of the weedy Jersey bulls that refuse to grow.
I would at least expect a discount on decent calves if I was to take the smaller, weaker stuff too.
The other thing is, when prices are poor they seem to want to offload everything on to you, but won't keep the deal when prices get better. It has to be a long term and fair arrangement as the calf rearer I am taking a lot of risk and taking away a lot of worry for the dairy.
If anyone is interested in coming up with a fair arrangement, please do drop me a pm.

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

It'd be mainly black and whites and angus heifers. There's a market for the decent blues and the angus steers. The neighbour would have big batches of Jersey X kiwi bulls and Jersey X Angus. To be honest though if there was an innovative agreement to come up with that would work, I am interested to know of others who are doing something interesting. There are people with sheds but no cattle experience, there are people who want to get started but have no sheds... surely we could tee something up?!

I'm thinking
- create a set price for all calves on the basis that it leaves profit for the rearer but they take ALL calves.
- Some sort of profit share (but who puts the capital in for the inputs?)
- What happens on a TB front.

I think regarding the tb calves, if you could find a rearer to take them for free at a week old, it would be heaven.

 

[Sid]

I have come close to setting up a calf rearing enterprise based on taking all of a dairys calves.
The issue with this is, I often find people want to charge for the good stuff/sell them elsewhere, and palm the crap on to you for free. If I had an agreement it would be to take all, and on the understanding that the decent calf that is worth something is paying for the keep of the weedy Jersey bulls that refuse to grow.
I would at least expect a discount on decent calves if I was to take the smaller, weaker stuff too.
The other thing is, when prices are poor they seem to want to offload everything on to you, but won't keep the deal when prices get better. It has to be a long term and fair arrangement as the calf rearer I am taking a lot of risk and taking away a lot of worry for the dairy.
If anyone is interested in coming up with a fair arrangement, please do drop me a pm.

I would be happy to form a ongoing chain with someone to take all my fri calves.
The issues are
Calving all year round so no real batches.
Moving from tb restricted to clear.

I would be happy to take a proportion of the final sale price,

 

[farmboy]

I have come close to setting up a calf rearing enterprise based on taking all of a dairys calves.
The issue with this is, I often find people want to charge for the good stuff/sell them elsewhere, and palm the crap on to you for free. If I had an agreement it would be to take all, and on the understanding that the decent calf that is worth something is paying for the keep of the weedy Jersey bulls that refuse to grow.
I would at least expect a discount on decent calves if I was to take the smaller, weaker stuff too.
The other thing is, when prices are poor they seem to want to offload everything on to you, but won't keep the deal when prices get better. It has to be a long term and fair arrangement as the calf rearer I am taking a lot of risk and taking away a lot of worry for the dairy.
If anyone is interested in coming up with a fair arrangement, please do drop me a pm.

We’ve been selling calves every couple weeks at market, a mixture of everything, dairy bulls, beef x’s, smaller beef calves from heifers etc. On the end of the invoice from market it gives you an per head average. Had someone that wanted to buy a batch private so just said take the next 40 born as they come and pay us what we’ve been averaging minus a little bit as no haulage etc. Thought this was the easiest way rather than trying to agree a price on every calf

 

[ImLost]

I would be happy to form a ongoing chain with someone to take all my fri calves.
The issues are
Calving all year round so no real batches.
Moving from tb restricted to clear.

I would be happy to take a proportion of the final sale price,

I read that as you are currently tb restricted, correct?

 

[Beef farmer]

It'd be mainly black and whites and angus heifers. There's a market for the decent blues and the angus steers. The neighbour would have big batches of Jersey X kiwi bulls and Jersey X Angus. To be honest though if there was an innovative agreement to come up with that would work, I am interested to know of others who are doing something interesting. There are people with sheds but no cattle experience, there are people who want to get started but have no sheds... surely we could tee something up?!

I'm thinking
- create a set price for all calves on the basis that it leaves profit for the rearer but they take ALL calves.
- Some sort of profit share (but who puts the capital in for the inputs?)
- What happens on a TB front.

And that's where your going wrong.
Black and whites and Angus heifers..... chuck the angus bulls and blues in the mix and sell them ALL to someone. You want it all ways here. Use the blues as a haggling tool. Our calf buyer takes all, i could sell the blue bulls for 2x what they pay but the aa heifers wouldnt make what he pays in a market. All about give and take

 

[The Son]

I had an agreement with a 500 cow ayr calving herd and took all his calves. Minimum batch for collection 30, maximum 50. We had a set price for a six week old calf then plus or minus £x per weekover or under 6 weeks. He was in and out of tb restriction, and i am a. Afu so no movement problems, worked fantastically well for 5 years, unfortunately he retired in march and sold the cows.
calves were mainly bb, some angus and some hereford.
with the type of calves the op is reffering to i think you would have to find and end buyer first because they will be difficult to place as a finished animal.

 

[Thick Farmer]

Surely with the new legislation for dairy farmers to stop shooting bull calves it will be a buyers market. You could even charge to take them.