Buying a ram

[Woolless]

EBVs still aren't what the majority look for but they are becoming important. Many still just go for the biggest tup they can afford, which results in the problems detailed in this thread. High index tups are not immune to this treatment either but perhaps those breeders that tend to pay more attention to that side are less inclined to overfeed.

 

[Danllan]

... buying a ram on the grounds of carcass & growth rates is really only half the story. I'd want to see the previous year's lambs from a ram if I was going to buy one now & that's what makes the ram lamb or shearling sales (where the ram has never been put to the ewes) so bizarre - you're buying a promise most of the time.

That's the key thing; and its been an education for us to see a quite spectacular ram produce lambs of which only a small proportion were as good as hoped. Of course, even by a star not every lamb will be another one, but you'd expect something a little over the ordinary or at least alright. And this is the greatest advantage we've gained by breeding our own; first year put them to a number of ewes, some random, some with complimentary traits we want to pass on, and then look at the results - that's been the way to get some cracking rams, so far.

But I'll add one other point: for every four 'stars' I pick as lambs, Mrs Danllan chooses another from my 'nearlys'. So far about a quarter of my picks have been time-wasters, and about a third of her picks have turned out very well...

 

[cowboysupper]

Wanting to buy a pedigree Texel ram this Autumn to go on about 30 pedigree ewes. Is it best to buy a lamb or a shearling? What are your views regarding the pros and cons please.

Depends on what market you wish to aim for. If you're keeping it commercial you should be able to buy a decent ram lamb for £5/600 which is commerically sound but without the traits some of the pedigree focused breeders are looking for. If you don't like his progeny you can always sell him the following year. A good commercial ram lamb should have no bother getting into £800+ as a shearling if he's the right quality.

If its the pedigree market you're aiming for I'd AI your ewes with frozen semen (or better stil fresh if you can get it) from the ram of your choice and also buy a ram lamb for sweeping up. Again the ram lamb can always be sold the following year if you want. Or if you have a massive budget take yourself to Lanark and buy something that ticks all your boxes.

I'd rather have a ram lamb because you've a better indicator of what they're growth rate, conformation. structure, wool are like. Fair enough there are experts at manipulating those traits but with a bit of guidance/experience you'll be able to avoid them.

 

[cowboysupper]

EBVs still aren't what the majority look for but they are becoming important. Many still just go for the biggest tup they can afford, which results in the problems detailed in this thread. High index tups are not immune to this treatment either but perhaps those breeders that tend to pay more attention to that side are less inclined to overfeed.

I would suggest that high index tups in the Texel world can be every bit as susceptable to excessive feeding. You only had to look at some of the lambs with high indexes and high prices in Lanark last year. Huge growth rates driving high indexes but with poor muscle and fat depth.

 

[Woolless]

I would suggest that high index tups in the Texel world can be every bit as susceptable to excessive feeding. You only had to look at some of the lambs with high indexes and high prices in Lanark last year. Huge growth rates driving high indexes but with poor muscle and fat depth.

The one that smashed the record would possibly answer that description IIRC?

 

[easyram1]

Wanting to buy a pedigree Texel ram this Autumn to go on about 30 pedigree ewes. Is it best to buy a lamb or a shearling? What are your views regarding the pros and cons please.

You need to start from the point of view of what do you want to sell ie ram lambs or shearlings. In a previous life we were selling Suffolk ram lambs at the major Society Sales that took place in the last week of July and first week of August. The main one of these was Edinburgh. The established maxim was that you need an 'Edinburgh ram to sire an Edinburgh lamb' or alternatively a Kelso ram never sired an Edinburgh ram. The rationale was that Edinburgh rams had to be fully mature in appearance within 7 months being born to look their best. This also required hem to withstand heavy levels of concentrate feed without going off their legs etc. Kelso ram lambs matured more slowly being sold at 9 months of age and Kelso shearlings even more so.

 

[R.Dutchman]

You need to start from the point of view of what do you want to sell ie ram lambs or shearlings. In a previous life we were selling Suffolk ram lambs at the major Society Sales that took place in the last week of July and first week of August. The main one of these was Edinburgh. The established maxim was that you need an 'Edinburgh ram to sire an Edinburgh lamb' or alternatively a Kelso ram never sired an Edinburgh ram. The rationale was that Edinburgh rams had to be fully mature in appearance within 7 months being born to look their best. This also required hem to withstand heavy levels of concentrate feed without going off their legs etc. Kelso ram lambs matured more slowly being sold at 9 months of age and Kelso shearlings even more so.

The ones to really avoid don't sell at Edinburgh and end up at Kelso!

 

[unlacedgecko]

If I were you I'd buy from someone you know, or know of by reputation from people with opinions you trust. Anything else is a fool's gamble... the points above about forcing are valid for shearlings and lambs.

We started a new flock here about six years ago, not Texels, and have bought five rams in since then and bred others, we've kept and used the very best and sold on the 'nearlys'. Now we have what we want - and, at last after mistakes, a fair eye for replacements - we'll only be buying a ram in every few years and then just for a specific trait(s)*.




*Currently getting our shedders' tails shorter and less haired; happy to hear from anyone with similar aims.

I've nothing for sale for s few years, but my Shetland based shedders will have tails naturally above their hocks.

 

[Agrivator]

The ones to really avoid don't sell at Edinburgh and end up at Kelso!

When was the last Suffolk sold at Edinburgh. Not long after the last Hereford bull was sold at Edinburgh - about 35 years ago?

 

[gwi1890]

If you could buy one out of the Aged Ram section at a sale you could land yourself a proven bargain aged doesn’t mean old just 3 years + study the catalogue well in advance go see the progeny of the ram you potentially might buy or if you opt for a ram lamb or shearling do your homework on the flocks before hand and visit a few see how they operate

 

[Y Fan Wen]

All the rams I sell go in the killing lines. All my ram lambs go as stores in the mart.
One day a farmer I knew slightly, approached me and asked if I would sell one lamb in a pen separately. I was happy to oblige and flattered as he was known as a bit of a breeder, marked it and told the auctioneer. He bought it at about the same price as the pen. The following year I asked him how it had turned out and he professed himself very pleased with it. I am not a good enough stockman to know what he saw but I know that I have done my miniscule bit towards improving the Welsh Mountain breed!

 

[Agrivator]

All the rams I sell go in the killing lines. All my ram lambs go as stores in the mart.
One day a farmer I knew slightly, approached me and asked if I would sell one lamb in a pen separately. I was happy to oblige and flattered as he was known as a bit of a breeder, marked it and told the auctioneer. He bought it at about the same price as the pen. The following year I asked him how it had turned out and he professed himself very pleased with it. I am not a good enough stockman to know what he saw but I know that I have done my miniscule bit towards improving the Welsh Mountain breed!

How did the 'Welsh Mountain Improvement' project at Aber end up? Or is it still continuing?

 

[R.Dutchman]

When was the last Suffolk sold at Edinburgh. Not long after the last Hereford bull was sold at Edinburgh - about 35 years ago?

Stirling then Lanark if you want to be precise ... Just replying to someone who claims to be out of touch!

 

[texelburger]

I produce Yearling Texels Tups and refuse to push them,they only have a few whole Oats mixed with a standard sheep nut.This is after buying at auctions,from big breeders,and the tups just melt away.People come back so it must be working.

 

[Kentishfarmer]

If your only running it over 30 ewes I don't see why you shouldn't get a ram lamb. It will often be 1/2 or 2/3 the price of a shearling and your getting first pick of that years crop. That is if your buy direct from the breeder, if they are putting ram lambs through a ring I'd be asking why

 

[Y Fan Wen]

If you could buy one out of the Aged Ram section at a sale you could land yourself a proven bargain aged doesn’t mean old just 3 years + study the catalogue well in advance go see the progeny of the ram you potentially might buy or if you opt for a ram lamb or shearling do your homework on the flocks before hand and visit a few see how they operate

How did the 'Welsh Mountain Improvement' project at Aber end up? Or is it still continuing?

I don't know anything about it but believe that it is work in progress.

 

[easyram1]

When was the last Suffolk sold at Edinburgh. Not long after the last Hereford bull was sold at Edinburgh - about 35 years ago?

2010-

 

[R.Dutchman]

2010-

Was that your last year?

 

[easyram1]

Was that your last year?

2006 We dispersed the Crosemanor Flock in Nov of that year. Ested for 53 yearrs.

 

[Ysgythan]

Is @Ysgythan still on here?

occasionally sighted