Cotswold brash high disturbance?

[damaged]

When drilling into very stoney brash thin soil, any engagement moves the stone around a fair bit compaired to stone free clay loams. Will this low organic matter poor fertility ground build up structure with all the movement or should I "give in" and accept some movement and concentrate on the top 2" as a compromise but potentially economically viable in the short and medium term.
Please no extreme answers, working with some rented land, Moore drill , and possibly a Simtech. And shed full of old tillage kit.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Dont quite understand what your asking

 

[damaged]

If drilling always moves a fair bit of soil because of stones pushing around, should I not bother with low disturbance policy and instead use shallow till, being more consistent for blackgrass control .

 

[damaged]

@Steevo i remember (?) that you dd on brash with sprinter? That must be high disturbance but works ok?

 

[Steevo]

I use a Horsch Sprinter on clay/gravel loams. Very pleased with it. I'd consider it a high disturbance form of DD, but it does me exactly what I want. It's like min till, and drilling in a single pass.Means the untouched stubble is much more weatherproof than cultivated ground for drilling - it soon dries up after a day or so but it can suffer from waterlogging if a sustained period of wet follows drilling.

I try and add as much muck etc. as possible, and occasionally chop straw (all bean straw chopped, and some wheat) so I'm sure that helps the soil much more than ploughing it year in year out. I'm not one to get too hung up on DD/no-till etc. though.

Benefits for me:

Keeping nutrients in top 2"
Huge saving in time at a busy time of year
Huge saving in diesel
One man operation
Weatherproof fields where stubbles are untouched
Easy to see drilling mark (though GPS steering used on main of field - not headlands)
Sprinter costs almost nothing in wearing metal.

 

[damaged]

Thanks @Steevo . Sprinter keeps appearing back on the top of my "what drill" list.

 

[Steevo]

No problem at all. Welcome to see ours running if you'd like, or the seedbeds produced. Have 30ac wheat left to do early next wk, then swapping coulters onto beans.

 

[Brisel]

@MX7 asked the tine vs disc on stony brash question a while ago. The feeling was that the establishment would be compromised by a disc riding over the flat stones where a tine would move them aside.

Toby Baxter has both tine & disc drills for hos DD if my memory serves me rightly.

 

[Pilatus]

When drilling into very stoney brash .

Cotswold stoney brash ,mmm?? Now there is Cotswold stoney "brash" (you can see quite a bit of soil as well as stone) , and then there is what I call Cotswold stone "trash"(so much stone you can hardly see any/if any actual soil). My apologies for appearing to be flippant but I have lived onthe Cotswolds all my farming life so I know what I am on about.
I have my own reasons for some fields becoming stone trash ,but what do I know.

 

[damaged]

@MX7 soil full of stone, not stone only. No need to apologise, I'm asking for advice and willing to listen to experience. Do you think it will ever properly structure if never ploughed or does brash always stay 'loose' due to high calcium not bonding?

 

[Pilatus]

6yrs on what seeding / cultivation technique is the test of time in your situation.

 

[ollie989898]

Whichever drill can stick the stones and leave the stubble undisturbed if possible would be my bet. Tines always seemed to be the favoured bit for the flinty farms I've known.

 

[cb387]

Were on brash and its suprising how a disc tends to push stones out of the way. Has to be a reasonable size stone and the disc hit it pretty central for the disc to ride over it.

 

[ollie989898]

Were on brash and its suprising how a disc tends to push stones out of the way. Has to be a reasonable size stone and the disc hit it pretty central for the disc to ride over it.

Would the wear rates on discs or their bearings etc be excessive? Tine drills in the main seem favoured because they have low wear costs as you're only really replacing the points.

 

[eagleye]

We have started using Dale eco m on stoney clay soil and happy its not pulling up too many stones . narrow points 12mm. would agree with steevo above very wet weather after drilling can be troublesome, early in good conditions is easier.

 

[Martin Holden]

When drilling into very stoney brash thin soil, any engagement moves the stone around a fair bit compaired to stone free clay loams. Will this low organic matter poor fertility ground build up structure with all the movement or should I "give in" and accept some movement and concentrate on the top 2" as a compromise but potentially economically viable in the short and medium term.
Please no extreme answers, working with some rented land, Moore drill , and possibly a Simtech. And shed full of old tillage kit.

I know what you mean. I can’t see how organic matter build up can be substantive on Cotswold brash and as you say the minute you move the soil, you move the stones too. Tough old ground all right. Well remember the Velcourt days of the mid 70’s warring Bettison 3D drills out for a pass time - the alternative being an international tine drill - that baby moved the stones well!

 

[Pilatus]

I know what you mean. I can’t see how organic matter build up can be substantive on Cotswold brash and as you say the minute you move the soil, you move the stones too. Tough old ground all right. Well remember the Velcourt days of the mid 70’s warring Bettison 3D drills out for a pass time - the alternative being an international tine drill - that baby moved the stones well!

Then follow behind with a set of “zig zag” harrows , to scatter the stone even more

 

[yellow belly]

We drive slower on the small area or brash we notill Gd drill
drive too fast and seed is to shallow as the disc rides out

if we were 100% brash would have a tine no till drill

 

[TeaBread]

solution was a jockey tine drill. Simple and effective. 12mm points also available if less distance required.

 

[Hindsight]

solution was a jockey tine drill. Simple and effective. 12mm points also available if less distance required.

Back in the 70s an International 511 cultivator drill was choice of direct drill on brash soils.