Diatomaceous earth- natural silicon

[DieselRob]

Is it bad for beneficial insects?

I’m trying it for the first time this year on brassicas against flea beetle, I’m happy with the theory behind it but now the agronomist is suggesting it’s actually harmful to beneficials in the same way as it is used as a grain store insecticide. Is he right or is big Ag just wanting us to keep buying synthetic products

Thoughts? Much appreciated!

 

[PSQ]

Certainly works very well killing bugs in an empty grain store.

But I can’t see it working for long after heavy dew or rain outside. Worth a try, as insecticides are horrible for the environment , beneficials and the operator.

How are you applying it? Bit of a pain covering a field using a backpack leaf blower with optional powder kit.

 

[DieselRob]

As a liquid

 

[Clive]

thought it killed by drying insects out ? if so confused how it can be a liquid ?

does it work ?

 

[Tractor Tim]

Thought the silica worked by damaging the insects insides and then they dehydrate. Can see where he is coming from but its got to be better than a blanket application of insecticide

Out of interest does he sell you the chem but not the nts product?

 

[DieselRob]

Thanks for the input so far,

The theory put to me for using this type of silica is 2 fold, firstly when applied foliar it is used by the plant to create stronger cells which are harder for bugs to eat. Secondly diatomaceous earth is quite sharp and abrasive (under a microscope) so when a beetle tries to eat the coated leaf it wears down their teeth so they just can’t eat it.

@Clive does it work? I’m willing to try and find out but how I would scientifically quantify it at farm level I’m not sure

@Tractor Tim you’re on the money, he doesn’t sell the NTS products. They do have another silica product which is silicic acid (I think that’s right)

 

[PSQ]

Thanks for the input so far,

The theory put to me for using this type of silica is 2 fold, firstly when applied foliar it is used by the plant to create stronger cells which are harder for bugs to eat. Secondly diatomaceous earth is quite sharp and abrasive (under a microscope) so when a beetle tries to eat the coated leaf it wears down their teeth so they just can’t eat it.

@Clive does it work? I’m willing to try and find out but how I would scientifically quantify it at farm level I’m not sure

@Tractor Tim you’re on the money, he doesn’t sell the NTS products. They do have another silica product which is silicic acid (I think that’s right)

That sounds like a bit of salesman's artistic licence, aka bullshite.

The razor sharp microscopic diatomes get between the plates on an insects body, and cut the underlying skin to shreds, at which point they dehydrate and die. I don't think I've ever encountered a scientific paper that states that diatomaceous earth causes insects to 'wear down their teeth'. As to whether a wet applied tiny amount per Ha will have any effect on the insect population, you'll need to report back to us on that.

 

[DieselRob]

That sounds like a bit of salesman's artistic licence, aka bullshite.

The razor sharp microscopic diatomes get between the plates on an insects body, and cut the underlying skin to shreds, at which point they dehydrate and die. I don't think I've ever encountered a scientific paper that states that diatomaceous earth causes insects to 'wear down their teeth'. As to whether a wet applied tiny amount per Ha will have any effect on the insect population, you'll need to report back to us on that.

Well this is why I put the question to the masses on here. There had to be someone who knew more than the ramblings I posted Thank you

Based on what you’ve said, would non target insects (beneficials) be at risk then

 

[Kiwi Pete]

We have about 4000 acres with seams of DE running through it. Doesn't inspire much confidence in a canful doing much harm to anything bar the nozzles and the profits.

I've never seen insects (especially red spider mite) like it

 

[PSQ]

Based on what you’ve said, would non target insects (beneficials) be at risk then

The front of the can doesn't make any insecticidal claims. Never mind the beneficials, I would have to see some evidence that it did anything for the target species first.
I'm no expert by any means, but I've heard enough 'patter' to hopefully calibrate my bullsh1t sensor when someone is selling 'magic in a can'.
Try a bit and see, but twist the salesman's arm for a freebee with the promise of a decent order if it works. If he doesn't bite theres probably a reason why.