Electric fan on tractor engine?

[Ali_Maxxum]

Pros/cons?

Has anyone retro fitted an electric fan to a machine? Or specced a new one with one?

Have always thought they should work more efficiently? Assume great in a car with good continuous air flow on the road but certainly maybe not so with a tractor in the middle of a hot dusty summer.... Wondered about reliability issues, blown fuse, fault wiring, big head ache. Most that can go wrong with normal viscous fan would be a broken belt?

Cheers

 

[TripleSix]

Why would you want to?

The viscous unit will shift far more air than any electric fan, viscous unit may take up to 5hp to drive it when locked which if you had a 5hp electric motor would need a 340+ amp supply at 12volts

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Why would you want to?

The viscous unit will shift far more air than any electric fan, viscous unit may take up to 5hp to drive it when locked which if you had a 5hp electric motor would need a 340+ amp supply at 12volts

bit more than a 40amp fuse then...

 

[Kidds]

Kenlowe fan worked well on my car, can't see why it wouldn't on a tractor but quite happy with the fan it came with tbh.

 

[TripleSix]

Don't underestimate the amount of air the engine driven fan shifts on a tractor.

Cars are rarely under full throttle for more than a minute, a tractor can be at full load and full throttle continuously.

Hence why they have 6+ litre engines to make 200hp
A 2l engine makes 200+ hp in a car but it wouldn't last long doing it continuously.

 

[Frankzy]

Why would you want to?

Be more effective without the viscous clutch..

Don't underestimate the amount of air the engine driven fan shifts on a tractor.

A 5 or 6 hp fan will shift the same amount of air whether it's driven by a combustion engine or a motor though.

 

[Bloders]

A 5 or 6 hp fan will shift the same amount of air whether it's driven by a combustion engine or a motor though.

i think the point being made, was for a 12v system, the current required for a 5hp electric motor is quite large.

Cars and I guess trucks usually generate max power at higher speeds, so the fan is not needed as it has plenty of forced air flow. Tractors, as said above are different.
I took the viscous fan off the landrover and fitted an electric one for the exactr reason.

 

[Frankzy]

i think the point being made, was for a 12v system, the current required for a 5hp electric motor is quite large

You'd want a dedicated 48V generator

 

[Bloders]

You'd want a dedicated 48V generator

yes. be different if the tractor was diesel electric, in which case id be all for it, same as electricaly powered oil pums (for the engine)

 

[njneer]

Most modern tractors combines and Foragers now have a combination of the two, still a viscous fan arrangement but it is completely controlled electronically , reducing the fan input to the bare minimum cooling requirement to maximise power output from the engine by minimising the power draw.
As others have said there is a substantial power draw when a viscous fan is in full flow So by being able to control it to only when it is needed gives better and full use of the available power and reduces unnecessary fuel use.
Some use it to assist engine braking by fully engaging the fan Under braking to increase the drag load on the engine to assist to pull the transmission down.
Default position on these systems is “Full Fan” should there be a fault to ensure maximum cooling as the default position.

 

[Frankzy]

yes. be different if the tractor was diesel electric, in which case id be all for it, same as electricaly powered oil pums (for the engine)

You don't need to go diesel-electric to have a 48v alternator and why would you want an electric oil pump? They're already driven 100% mechanically.

 

[TripleSix]

You'd be better off with a hydraulically driven fan if you want speed control seeing as a tractor already has hydraulic power available.

Most telehandlers have a hydraulic cooling fan, with the advantage of it being reversible for self cleaning of the radiator.

 

[Andrew]

I do some part time contracting design work, I’ve worked on a project with electric fans and they need a LOT of electric.
A much better idea is something like the Cleanfix fan, just bolts on in place of the standard fan. The blades are variable geometry, and can be reversed as well.

 

[Exfarmer]

Remember also a diesel engine generating power to drive a fan is very innefficient

 

[Barleycorn]

We fitted one to a Case once that kept overheating, that cured it.

 

[Bloders]

You don't need to go diesel-electric to have a 48v alternator and why would you want an electric oil pump? They're already driven 100% mechanically.

Your not going to fit a 48v alternator just to power an electric fan, and even at 48 volts, it still wants a fair old current to deliver 5hp.
However, if the machine was diesel electric, and the engine is simply powering a generator, then thats very different as the whole machine is set up for electric controls.

Powering things like water pumps and oil pumps electrically, can for the exact same reasons, increase efficiency.
Mecahnically driven pumps must provide adequate flow at tickover - great.
But when engine speed is increased, there is an excess flow of oil (in the oil pump example) which goes through the relief valve on the oil pump. This is 100% inefficiency. Also if the pump was electrically powered, you can pump engile oil at full pressure before the engine starts and after it shuts down, so improving startup lubrication and shutdown cooling (for turbos and the like)

When I was younger (about 15 or so) i was given a copy of the attached book. Id recomend it to everyone who wants to start their learning on diesel engines. This book was written for steam loco drivers to educate them to diesel

British Railways Diesel Traction Manual for Enginemen: Amazon.co.uk: No author.: Books

Buy British Railways Diesel Traction Manual for Enginemen 1 by No author. (ISBN: ) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Ali_Maxxum]

Thanks for the responses. May have got my wording wrong/should have done a bit of homework first....

It's a Vistronic fan - electronically controlled Visco cooling fan. I have maybe been over thinking the operation of it but does look to be a more efficient operation. Borg Warner seem to be the ones to look at, some good explanations/videos about. So not like an electric fan like you would find in a car

 

[Timbo]

increase efficiency.

Alot of engine oil pumps are now on-demand variable output for fuel saving purposes

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Thanks for the responses. May have got my wording wrong/should have done a bit of homework first....

It's a Vistronic fan - electronically controlled Visco cooling fan. I have maybe been over thinking the operation of it but does look to be a more efficient operation. Borg Warner seem to be the ones to look at, some good explanations/videos about. So not like an electric fan like you would find in a car

NH been using them since TMs came in black chassis and maybe a bit earlier, multiprocessor can switch the fan on depending on engine temp, rear axle oil temp, if air con is on etc

 

[TripleSix]

Thanks for the responses. May have got my wording wrong/should have done a bit of homework first....

It's a Vistronic fan - electronically controlled Visco cooling fan. I have maybe been over thinking the operation of it but does look to be a more efficient operation. Borg Warner seem to be the ones to look at, some good explanations/videos about. So not like an electric fan like you would find in a car

I know there is an option on new Holland T7's for a reversible fan, makes me wonder what type of unit that is..the ones without that have an electronically controlled viscous type unit.

The John Deere 8000 we had had a hydraulic pipe going to the engine fan, had some sort of clutch in it