Farming without subsidies

[wurzell1976]

Grandfather packed up dairying in Scotland and moved down to a
derelict farm in Lincs when he was 55 so there's time yet I reckon, but he did stay in farming albeit changed from dairy to arable.



As you are making a good job of your farm you won't feel any motivation or need to do something else and why should you? However, if your books were in the red every year and everything was a mess and there was no hope of retrieving the situation then you might think differently. In some ways with less manual work and more IT work now available generally, a late change in career is perhaps easier than it was years ago when physical fitness was more of prerequisite.

Most farmers have a skill set and attitude that would be highly valued generally in the workforce.

My attitude once landed me in a police cell for the night ,and up before the beak,the rest of the time i"ve managed to talk my way out of it.

 

[kiwi pom]

Or Maybe on the Grand scheme of things their are not many of them.

Maybe not but I think there's more than the subsidy threads on here would have you believe.

 

[willy]

Just battening down the hatches isn’t a plan. Things have to move and I think once you say that’s it I’m not spending anything then you are cutting your nose to spite your face. And standing still just gets you further behind.

What you need is carefull consideration and business plan going forward, it may even mean that you get some outside advice in to find a way through the murky waters.

 

[Cowcorn]

Women generally are too risk averse to make investment decisions in farming.
It is a high risk business, and constantly taking the low risk option will eventually close the farm down.
Changing machinery now is a game of poker, a good tractor can land you a £20k bill at any time, so you have to be able to react quickly.

That is a very accaurate statement , you must know my mother. The ould fella operated on the principle of what she didnt know didnt sicken her. There were some serious rows when we were young over the priorities he had ..

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Very true. Although my wife isn't a partner in the business she can pour cold water on some of the purchase ideas I have had, as she has no afinity for shiny new machinery whatsoever and looks at everything I do with pure cold logic.

I often find that I get the urge to buy a machine or something when encountering what seems like an arduous task at certain times of the year, but once that task is done the urge to buy is completely forgotten. So now if I feel like buying something I just give it a fortnight, by which time the farming year has moved on and the difficulties have been forgotten and the need for that essential bit of shiny tackle fades away. I often feel like buying a bale bandit when making small bales as its hardwork manually stacking them in the shed, but once the jobs done I think to myself what the hell would I want to spend £60 k on one of those for?

Much spending seems like a go, at face value. But if you resist for a while, say 6 weeks, you find out you did just fine without.

Like, buying expensive stuff to churn out more cheap stuff, anyone can resist doing that, surely?

My wife's cold logic says, "how few stock can we run to pay the fixed costs" and we go about 50% over that, and if the season goes dry we sell the 50%, recover the farm, and pick our moment to buy again.
Pretty simple, it helps not having anything that we aren't prepared to send away, very little sentiment here.
I'm still working on reducing my sentiment more, big trap right there... the main aim is to have a very lean and responsive business, I don't know whether beef is going to be up or down, or lamb, so you have to keep a close eye and be prepared to shift - or lose out.

Such is the nature of it.

 

[Cowcorn]

Much spending seems like a go, at face value. But if you resist for a while, say 6 weeks, you find out you did just fine without.

Like, buying expensive stuff to churn out more cheap stuff, anyone can resist doing that, surely?

My wife's cold logic says, "how few stock can we run to pay the fixed costs" and we go about 50% over that, and if the season goes dry we sell the 50%, recover the farm, and pick our moment to buy again.
Pretty simple, it helps not having anything that we aren't prepared to send away, very little sentiment here.
I'm still working on reducing my sentiment more, big trap right there... the main aim is to have a very lean and responsive business, I don't know whether beef is going to be up or down, or lamb, so you have to keep a close eye and be prepared to shift - or lose out.

Such is the nature of it.

It really depends on what floats your boat . The object of farming is tp make money and invest in the business out of profits . But buying for poor reasons will usually be regretted. A wise old uncle who is was a very successful arable farmer in the fifties and sixties used to say ONCE was enough to buy most machines plenty of oil and grease were what most people find hard to buy. That was his theory anyway and he owned more land and property when he died than many farmers who were much bigger than he was when he started. Others would say he was a tight old miser who loved working with scrap but like i said whatever floats your boat .

 

[glasshouse]

What year did he move?

It really depends on what floats your boat . The object of farming is tp make money and invest in the business out of profits . But buying for poor reasons will usually be regretted. A wise old uncle who is was a very successful arable farmer in the fifties and sixties used to say ONCE was enough to buy most machines plenty of oil and grease were what most people find hard to buy. That was his theory anyway and he owned more land and property when he died than many farmers who were much bigger than he was when he started. Others would say he was a tight old miser who loved working with scrap but like i said whatever floats your boat .

the "not spending anything" mentality is remarkably stupid , as repairs can frequently overtake the value of the machine or the finance cost of a used replacement..
The problem with involving wives in investment decisions is that 99% of partners have no training in the subject.
Personally i hate shiny tackle and prefer used to very used, as long as i can see my way to getting reasonable priced spares.

 

[glasshouse]

1953

How was there abandoned land in 1953?
Thought that was boom time?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

How was there abandoned land in 1953?
Thought that was boom time?

I dont know about the 50ts but the 60ts you could buy any farm you wanted almost around here. Foresty Commision were buying most of it

 

[DRC]

the "not spending anything" mentality is remarkably stupid , as repairs can frequently overtake the value of the machine or the finance cost of a used replacement..
The problem with involving wives in investment decisions is that 99% of partners have no training in the subject.
Personally i hate shiny tackle and prefer used to very used, as long as i can see my way to getting reasonable priced spares.

A very sexist view isn’t it. My wife is a partner in the business and all decisions are discussed together . I value her input and support .
What training have you had in doing machinery deals

 

[Brisel]

Spouses provide a much more impartial view needed when making a decision for business, not emotion. A lot of farms are very successfully run by the wives - the husbands are only the tractor drivers/stockmen!

 

[hally]

Spouses provide a much more impartial view needed when making a decision for business, not emotion. A lot of farms are very successfully run by the wives - the husbands are only the tractor drivers/stockmen!

It's like that here, the wife's the brains but I'd never tell her that

 

[Cowgirl]

But we don't need aero fuel to get it from here to local buyers and we are supposed to have all these fantastic shiny labour saving machines and technology.

We have tractors that cost £250k but we can't compete with the Senegalese on supplying radishes to our very own home markets. That is very telling IMO. It tells me that UK Ag is a very expensive publicly funded hobby not an industry that meets the real needs of markets. It produces product for the sake of it to suit the production system and hopes somebody will buy it, rather than meeting a need.

The production system has become the tail that wags the dog. If a product doesn't fit the production system, we don't grow it, regardless of demand. If it does fit the production system, we grow it regardless of demand.

We have become obsessed with the production system, not markets or demand.

Only read this thread today but sadly the more I learn about farming, the more I am coming to believe that this is true. Presumably the problem is "Well I've got the land - I have to do something with it." Would some farmers be better off just keeping the land tidy and forget the supermarkets? Or am I just getting old and cynical now? Or is that just a woman talking?

 

[ajd132]

the "not spending anything" mentality is remarkably stupid , as repairs can frequently overtake the value of the machine or the finance cost of a used replacement..
The problem with involving wives in investment decisions is that 99% of partners have no training in the subject.
Personally i hate shiny tackle and prefer used to very used, as long as i can see my way to getting reasonable priced spares.

You're views on a women's role on farm are atrocious.

 

[DrWazzock]

How was there abandoned land in 1953?
Thought that was boom time?

There was plenty of cheap land down here in 1953. Next door sold to the forestry commission for 7 shillings an acre. Grade 3 mixed farming land was £22 per acre, cheaper than livestock farms in the west of Scotland. Banks wouldn't lend my grandfather anything. His wife wouldn't lend him anything either, so he borrowed the money he needed to stock the farm from his vet. Three years later his pigs got anthrax and he nearly went bust. The ministry brought lorry loads of coal in to burn all his livestock then buried the ash in lime. His first cereal harvest was nearly ruined by the wet summer of 1954 and drying charges took what little profit there was. His first decade here was quite difficult to say the least. He must have had a brass neck and balls of steel.

 

[Cowcorn]

I wouldnt think glasshouse needs any training in anything . He would get in or out where a breeze wouldnt .

 

[Agrispeed]

I find people with no training are actually very handy. They tend to look at everything from the start, rather than with preconceptions. Someone who spends a lot of time asking why you are doing something is a real asset IMO.

Having someone who is sensible, practical and able to adapt/think for themselves are much more important qualities. The best people I have employed have had no prior experience in agriculture, but have been diligent and interested, and picked up the skills they require very quickly. The few young farmers I have had experience with have been, for the most part, a bloody nightmare.

 

[Scribus]

But we don't need aero fuel to get it from here to local buyers and we are supposed to have all these fantastic shiny labour saving machines and technology.

We have tractors that cost £250k but we can't compete with the Senegalese on supplying radishes to our very own home markets. That is very telling IMO. It tells me that UK Ag is a very expensive publicly funded hobby not an industry that meets the real needs of markets. It produces product for the sake of it to suit the production system and hopes somebody will buy it, rather than meeting a need.

The production system has become the tail that wags the dog. If a product doesn't fit the production system, we don't grow it, regardless of demand. If it does fit the production system, we grow it regardless of demand.

We have become obsessed with the production system, not markets or demand.

But isn't the production system and the market the same thing? Neither are under the control of the farmer.

 

[Scribus]

I find people with no training are actually very handy. They tend to look at everything from the start, rather than with preconceptions. Someone who spends a lot of time asking why you are doing something is a real asset IMO.

Having someone who is sensible, practical and able to adapt/think for themselves are much more important qualities. The best people I have employed have had no prior experience in agriculture, but have been diligent and interested, and picked up the skills they require very quickly. The few young farmers I have had experience with have been, for the most part, a bloody nightmare.

I got this crazy idea at college that instead of spending a pre-college year on a farm students from a farming background should do a year anywhere but a farm. Perhaps it wasn't that crazy after all.

 

[egbert]

the "not spending anything" mentality is remarkably stupid , as repairs can frequently overtake the value of the machine or the finance cost of a used replacement..
The problem with involving wives in investment decisions is that 99% of partners have no training in the subject.
Personally i hate shiny tackle and prefer used to very used, as long as i can see my way to getting reasonable priced spares.

This training you refer to...is it training in how to circumvent wifely restraints of my spending? I certainly need that!