Heptavac. Anyone not bother??

[Nithsdale]

Agree with your thoughts ---the only reason I started using was because of a severe problem that developed

But now your on it, would you consider stepping off again?,

 

[Tim W]

But now your on it, would you consider stepping off again?,

Yes I would. Main problem here is Pasturella and that tends to strike on selected farms at certain times so there may be other ways to minimize loss (and the vaccine is not 100%) .
Other problem is pulpy kidney but my experience says that if lambing on clean grazing these losses are vastly reduced... So there are other ways of approaching this

 

[Woolless]

Where can this presentation be found?

It was on the ahdb website, not sure where. I saw him speak at the local vet practice one night last winter. He's well worth listening to.

 

[dogandstick]

Before my time, my forebears used to loose around 6% of the adult flock annually.(Records going back 20 years+) They used only one Hept vaccine at the outset with a pre lambing booster, so probably the worst of both worlds, doing half a job with the associated costs but no benefit. They used to fluke and worm for fun though, with all adult sheep wormed three or four times a year.

Since I took over, we've Hept properly, eliminated any worming of adult sheep (apart from the odd ewe, very rarely though) and our annual losses reduced to about 4% in the first few years, now down to 1%.

That is a 5% reduction which on a flock of 600 is 30 adult sheep. Our cull ewes averaged £65 this year, so that is an extra £1950 in the kitty, without the additional lambs saved.

Might be co-incidental, but I would be afraid to risk it. By the way, my forebears were far better stockmen than me, so the improvement can't be put down to that.

 

[ThatsSomeSheep]

Some very thought provoking replies. Thanks.

@Nithsdale Farmer . The stuff you use, what does it do and what are costs etc please??

Thanks

TSS

 

[Nithsdale]

Some very thought provoking replies. Thanks.

@Nithsdale Farmer . The stuff you use, what does it do and what are costs etc please??

Thanks

TSS

As far as I'm aware, Covexin8 is the exact same as Heptavac, without the P part. I would need to double check though. Certainly the first year I bought it, I remember the data sheet being almost identical as Heptavac.

Can't comment on cost - I'm still about 3 weeks off using it this year, and I can't remember last year's prices. Substantially cheaper than Heptavac P though.

Edit: I remember when I went from Heptavac to Covexin8, my vet told me I wouldn't need to start again - 1 Jag before lambing would keep them covered (so it must be the same?).
But, if could go back I think I would look at moving to Bravoxin10.

 

[Woolless]

If you want to check prices for vaccines etc, the Mole Valley website is good.

 

[sticky]

How long do you keep them?

Very much a flying flock, one/two years.

 

[neilo]

I'll get my hard hat on before I go further, but... despite the obvious fact that we will always lose some sheep to disease, am I the only one who thinks that continually vaccinating will reduce the residual enrichment of more resistant genes in each person's and the national flock?

I am sure there are people with good stat's to demonstrate that hept' / hept' P have done their flocks and profits the world of good; but I know others in all parts of the UK except NI - in addition to some posts above - who haven't noticed any positive difference and some who have even seen increased mortality.

Surely to use either hept' without prior need is a mistake? And then to be a slave to it for evermore, rather than seek an alternative long-term solution(s) is just to compound the mistake.

Edit to add: @bovine is this wishful thinking?

Vaccination against clostridial diseases are an insurance policy against an outbreak. In the early 90's, when lamb prices were on the floor, I knew a lot of people that saved some money by stopping pre-lambing vaccinations. They were all fine, and kept telling me so, for several years, then almost every one had a bad year with a lot of losses. They all started jabbing again and vowed never to stop again.

Would you advocate stopping vaccinating young children too, it is after all, reducing resistant genes in the human population. Would you suggest accepting a few more losses in the name of greater genetic diversity? It's the same argument.

 

[shearerlad]

If you want to check prices for vaccines etc, the Mole Valley website is good.

Fudging dear I reckon.

500ml bottle of heptavac p £153.90. 61.5p per dose.

I get mine through Davidsons vet supplies at £125. 50p per dose

 

[Woolless]

Fudging dear I reckon.

500ml bottle of heptavac p £153.90. 61.5p per dose.

I get mine through Davidsons vet supplies at £125. 50p per dose

You might be right. When I compared them with local merchants price for boluses, the locals came out best. However, it's easy to use their site to get a rough idea of cost when thinking about trying something new, or pricing elsewhere.

 

[Danllan]

Would you advocate stopping vaccinating young children too, it is after all, reducing resistant genes in the human population. Would you suggest accepting a few more losses in the name of greater genetic diversity? It's the same argument.

I know what you mean, but it's not the same argument. To equate it to the human principal of eugenics makes no sense, since we aren't rearing people for slaughter. But ask, instead, do I think our human population would be better if it were less reliant upon medication and I would give an unequivocal 'yes'.

 

[Nithsdale]

Vaccination against clostridial diseases are an insurance policy against an outbreak. In the early 90's, when lamb prices were on the floor, I knew a lot of people that saved some money by stopping pre-lambing vaccinations. They were all fine, and kept telling me so, for several years, then almost every one had a bad year with a lot of losses. They all started jabbing again and vowed never to stop again.

Would you advocate stopping vaccinating young children too, it is after all, reducing resistant genes in the human population. Would you suggest accepting a few more losses in the name of greater genetic diversity? It's the same argument.

Dues the blanket use of these vaccines cause some level of resistance?

(actually that is a genuine question)

 

[Bwcho]

Dues the blanket use of these vaccines cause some level of resistance?

(actually that is a genuine question)

I was thinking along a similar line the other day. With the rise in antibiotic resistance, is a modern-world full of 'anti-bac kills 99% this and that' / so much use of disinfectants, fuelling some sort of resistance as well?
Welcome to the Saddo's Club

 

[Al R]

Never used heptavac or any others, I think I've seen some ovivac used on ewe lambs. Mainly outdoor lambing and usually only lose 2-3 lambs a year to pulpy kidney so is it worth the expense and disturbance to heavily pregnant ewes for little benefit? 2-3 is out of 1400lambs not out of 4-5 [emoji23]

 

[Tim W]

Never used heptavac or any others, I think I've seen some ovivac used on ewe lambs. Mainly outdoor lambing and usually only lose 2-3 lambs a year to pulpy kidney so is it worth the expense and disturbance to heavily pregnant ewes for little benefit? 2-3 is out of 1400lambs not out of 4-5 [emoji23]

Your experience is similar to mine over 25 years ---then one year we had 20% losses which forced a re-think

 

[neilo]

If you want to check prices for vaccines etc, the Mole Valley website is good.

From that website, as a means of cost comparison.....
Heptavac P+ 67p/dose
Ovipast P+ 45p/dose
Ovivac P+ 48p/dose
Bravoxin 10 26p/dose
Covexin 8 8p/dose

So even the year that you change ewes over to Bravoxin with a double dose, you'd be saving 15p/ewe, then 41p/ewe each year after. Of course it also adds complication to the process of what's been done with what, and another handling to do the 2 shear ewes with a primary Bravoxin each year.

My temptation would be to keep those younger sheep on Ovivac P+ (which they'd start on as lambs), saving the primary dose of Heptavac P+ and 19p/sheep on the booster vaccine in years one and two. Hmmm.

 

[exmoor dave]

From that website, as a means of cost comparison.....
Heptavac P+ 67p/dose
Ovipast P+ 45p/dose
Ovivac P+ 48p/dose
Bravoxin 10 26p/dose
Covexin 8 8p/dose

So even the year that you change ewes over to Bravoxin with a double dose, you'd be saving 15p/ewe, then 41p/ewe each year after. Of course it also adds complication to the process of what's been done with what, and another handling to do the 2 shear ewes with a primary Bravoxin each year.

My temptation would be to keep those younger sheep on Ovivac P+ (which they'd start on as lambs), saving the primary dose of Heptavac P+ and 19p/sheep on the booster vaccine in years one and two. Hmmm.

Struth that is a fair saving!

I've been toying with the idea of changing to bravoxin, think that might be push to do it!

 

[unlacedgecko]

Struth that is a fair saving!

I've been toying with the idea of changing to bravoxin, think that might be push to do it!

I wintering ewe lambs for a client who uses Bravoxin. Lost 1% 31 Oct - 1 Dec. It looked like pastruella, with lungs full of fluid and green foam at mouth. A booster was given and so far, no further losses.

Interesting price comparisons. Definitely something to consider if/when I run my own stock.

 

[beardface]

Planning to switch over to ovivac for everything here ewes and lambs. Went onto covexin originally to get over lamb dysentery, this plus better hygiene did the job. Switched to hep p a couple years ago as lost the odd older and younger ewe to pasteurella. Also had the odd lamb with it too. To be fair I don't think our post lambing losses have altered massively since starting vaccinating, but it's piece of mind for the potential bad year. Lambing outdoors now and don't see the need for the extra 3 clostridial cover you get with hep p.
Also did a costing for the vaccination plan Neil suggested and it works out;

2.94/ewe for a 5 crop lifetime covexin plan

3.76 straight ovivac plan

5.16 if you use hep p

So another 2.22 over lifetime of ewe