How do you know if your renewable energy system is performing?

[EnergyMutual]

Hi there, I'm working on a small online energy management platform with a handful of operational renewable energy projects. What we've found is that several small-scale renewable energy systems are not performing as well as they could/should be, it is not until we start to analyse the performance data and compare with other similar systems that we realise the overall lost production.

I'm wondering how others monitor the performance of their energy assets? How do you know that you are getting the best out of your renewable energy system?

Would you have any concerns about sharing your system performance data with other, similar generators?

What are the most frustrating and confusing aspects of operating/maintaining your renewable energy asset?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. We've had some success with this online energy management system for a few generators in the Scottish Highlands and we're trying to work out if there is a wider need or interest and what features we might include in the future.

Cheers,
Kyle

 

[steveR]

How small is small, from your perspective??

 

[EnergyMutual]

1kW - 5MW, anything larger tends to be owned and operated by specialist energy companies that generally have their own in-house monitoring systems and asset managers.

 

[rollestonpark]

I put a raspberry pi on the electric meter (generation meter normally) and read the meter at midnight exactly every night (import and export).
Then my code sends this to an online google spreadsheet, for the month, creating a new page for every month.
I also populate fuel consumption against the electric output and heat output.
This gives me my performance data.

I also use ESP32 s (arduino types) to read the pulses on electric meters and I get realtime KW output using this. This is coded to use my local internet of things server using MQTT protocol.
As I do it all myself, I can have it exactly as I want it with NO subscription costs involved.
I also have a setup which is effectively a half hourly meter on the main in coming meter, so I have my own source of half hourly import/export data for the entire site.

 

[farmerm]

I put a raspberry pi on the electric meter (generation meter normally) and read the meter at midnight exactly every night (import and export).
Then my code sends this to an online google spreadsheet, for the month, creating a new page for every month.
I also populate fuel consumption against the electric output and heat output.
This gives me my performance data.

I also use ESP32 s (arduino types) to read the pulses on electric meters and I get realtime KW output using this. This is coded to use my local internet of things server using MQTT protocol.
As I do it all myself, I can have it exactly as I want it with NO subscription costs involved.
I also have a setup which is effectively a half hourly meter on the main in coming meter, so I have my own source of half hourly import/export data for the entire site.

Cleaver stuff, so that is what arable farmers do in the winter when they are not shooting or sking...

 

[sjt01]

We have a home programmed HMI for the digester, which shows short term trends on the feed side - 10 minutes, 8 hour trends on feedstock use, gas levels, gas constituents, temperatures and the like, daily totals for 25 parameters.
Weekly we transfer data from the minute by minute logs, summarised to daily, to a spreadsheet together with daily feed, and the above daily totals. There are 80 parameters in the spreadsheet.
On top of that, the CHP has its own HMI, which also generates logs.

 

[rollestonpark]

Cleaver stuff, so that is what arable farmers do in the winter when they are not shooting or sking...

I suppose gives something to do under lockdown.
I do quite like doing it, means I can control stuff the way I want with minimal costs.
IOT works really well for controlling heating systems (and the like) with relatively small amounts of code.

 

[EnergyMutual]

I put a raspberry pi on the electric meter (generation meter normally) and read the meter at midnight exactly every night (import and export).
Then my code sends this to an online google spreadsheet, for the month, creating a new page for every month.
I also populate fuel consumption against the electric output and heat output.
This gives me my performance data.

I also use ESP32 s (arduino types) to read the pulses on electric meters and I get realtime KW output using this. This is coded to use my local internet of things server using MQTT protocol.
As I do it all myself, I can have it exactly as I want it with NO subscription costs involved.
I also have a setup which is effectively a half hourly meter on the main in coming meter, so I have my own source of half hourly import/export data for the entire site.

Thanks for the reply. Nice setup!! Is this monitoring for an AD CHP plant? Have you managed to catch any performance issues with the data collection? Are there other parameters on the engine/generator that the OEM is collecting and acting on? How have you found the performance of your system, has it met your expectations, anything you would do differently?

 

[EnergyMutual]

We have a home programmed HMI for the digester, which shows short term trends on the feed side - 10 minutes, 8 hour trends on feedstock use, gas levels, gas constituents, temperatures and the like, daily totals for 25 parameters.
Weekly we transfer data from the minute by minute logs, summarised to daily, to a spreadsheet together with daily feed, and the above daily totals. There are 80 parameters in the spreadsheet.
On top of that, the CHP has its own HMI, which also generates logs.

Thanks for the reply! Good set of parameters there. What is the make of the HMI (Redlion, Comap etc?). Do you get realtime alarms coming from the HMI? Has this data helped you spot problems before they arise and make changes? Does your insurance provider ever ask for this performance data?

 

[steveR]

Got 5kW here of domestic ground mount PV The output goes through a Immersun diverter which means very little going back to the grid. Looked at a battery system, but it was/is not cost effective for our needs as other than peak summer output, we use it all.

A GSHP is also installed here and with an update in software, could be optimised for working with the PV. However, with just 5kW, I am not sure we will see much benefit, as the Immersun already shunts surplus (from the house) power into the immersion coils of the heat store. I have been very pleased with this unit.

The Immersun software allows some basic monitoring of performance and outputs.

The Solaredge inverter software give a pretty comprehensive set of figures which I keep an eye on, but again, the small output (at present) is of little significance as regards the financial figures. I am more interested in keeping an eye on panel performance using averaging.

 

[sjt01]

Thanks for the reply! Good set of parameters there. What is the make of the HMI (Redlion, Comap etc?). Do you get realtime alarms coming from the HMI? Has this data helped you spot problems before they arise and make changes? Does your insurance provider ever ask for this performance data?

Digester HMI is a Mitsubishi SoftGOT 2000, running over a Mitsi FX3 plc, all programming by ourselves. CHP HMI is Deif. We hardwire from the plc and the Deif to a Mitsi Alpha which monitors all alarms and sends text messages in real time. The SoftGOT also sends emails in real time.
Observing trends in gas quality is a far better predictor of digester upset than FOS/TAC or pH.
No interest at all from our insurers.
This is a screenshot of the digester HMI just now, it is quite busy but a quick glance can show everything is happy. It runs on a big screen, and the screenshot does not do it justice! I have no time for displays which just show spot values, trends are essential.

 

[rollestonpark]

Thanks for the reply. Nice setup!! Is this monitoring for an AD CHP plant? Have you managed to catch any performance issues with the data collection? Are there other parameters on the engine/generator that the OEM is collecting and acting on? How have you found the performance of your system, has it met your expectations, anything you would do differently?

This on woodchip gasification CHP. To be honest I run it flat out, there is very little extra I can do.
But all my data is available automatically, so it makes ofgem data submissions easy.
If doing it again I would run more of it through Node Red. More recent additions I have started to do this, but didn't at the start (3 years ago).
When modifying my original stuff I am slowly moving it all to Node Red and using MQTT (internet of things). It just allows all devices that I add to automatically talk to each other, so automation is very easy to add to and modify.

 

[sjt01]

This on woodchip gasification CHP. To be honest I run it flat out, there is very little extra I can do.
But all my data is available automatically, so it makes ofgem data submissions easy.
If doing it again I would run more of it through Node Red. More recent additions I have started to do this, but didn't at the start (3 years ago).
When modifying my original stuff I am slowly moving it all to Node Red and using MQTT (internet of things). It just allows all devices that I add to automatically talk to each other, so automation is very easy to add to and modify.

Have you used any of these https://www.thingsonedge.com/product-page/wifi-cricket ? They look good value, but I am looking for a simple way to get data to a spreadsheet without involving something like Node Red

 

[rollestonpark]

Have you used any of these https://www.thingsonedge.com/product-page/wifi-cricket ? They look good value, but I am looking for a simple way to get data to a spreadsheet without involving something like Node Red

Just had a look, not used those before my self, as said I use either ESP32 (about £8 off bay) or raspberry pi. I chose these because they both have excellent online help and troubleshooting etc.
To put data into a google spreadsheet online directly requires a little bit of CPU horse power such as a Pi, ESP32s and the like don't really have the cpu power, so you need to use an intermediary (not sure if that's the right word) to do the hard work. So yes that could be Node Red which is a great piece of software, or an online one.

I use a small computer as node red with an MQTT broker on it and various python code. This receives data via MQTT topics from ESP32s and Pis, from there any data that needs to go google spreadsheets can be picked up over the MQTT topic(s) and put into the relevant cell(s) on google using python code.

I think you have to remember, you start small with these things and build up slowly to a full working system.
So to answer your question a few lines of python code (on a Pi) can put data into a (google) spreadsheet online, it's just a question of by what method you want to get the valve to the Pi (MQTT being probably the easiest).

 

[sjt01]

Just had a look, not used those before my self, as said I use either ESP32 (about £8 off bay) or raspberry pi. I chose these because they both have excellent online help and troubleshooting etc.
To put data into a google spreadsheet online directly requires a little bit of CPU horse power such as a Pi, ESP32s and the like don't really have the cpu power, so you need to use an intermediary (not sure if that's the right word) to do the hard work. So yes that could be Node Red which is a great piece of software, or an online one.

I use a small computer as node red with an MQTT broker on it and various python code. This receives data via MQTT topics from ESP32s and Pis, from there any data that needs to go google spreadsheets can be picked up over the MQTT topic(s) and put into the relevant cell(s) on google using python code.

I think you have to remember, you start small with these things and build up slowly to a full working system.
So to answer your question a few lines of python code (on a Pi) can put data into a (google) spreadsheet online, it's just a question of by what method you want to get the valve to the Pi (MQTT being probably the easiest).

Thanks, I am happy with MQTT, but am a bit reluctant to learn another coding language in my 70s! Happy with C, VB5, various assemblers, and ladder logic, but I suspect I will just have to bite the Python bullet. I am running a Pi to log my car via transmission from "Scan my Tesla", but have not tried programming it.

 

[rollestonpark]

I use teslamate which looks similar.
MQTT you don't really have to learn, you kinda just use it. There is a python library for google sheets and MQTT and arduino has a MQTT library.
With your knowledge of those other languages python should be very easy to pick up. Anything I need help with I just google for.
arduino coding I believe is very 'C' like. So think you'll be able to do what you want with a bit of trial and error.
I do also like to do a bit of HTML and javascript, because MQTT works well with websockets, so you can get realtime updating values in your webpages without refreshing the page.
So I made a webpage so I can see my import/export electric (on each phase and total) going up and down in realtime.

 

[EnergyMutual]

Got 5kW here of domestic ground mount PV The output goes through a Immersun diverter which means very little going back to the grid. Looked at a battery system, but it was/is not cost effective for our needs as other than peak summer output, we use it all.

A GSHP is also installed here and with an update in software, could be optimised for working with the PV. However, with just 5kW, I am not sure we will see much benefit, as the Immersun already shunts surplus (from the house) power into the immersion coils of the heat store. I have been very pleased with this unit.

The Immersun software allows some basic monitoring of performance and outputs.

The Solaredge inverter software give a pretty comprehensive set of figures which I keep an eye on, but again, the small output (at present) is of little significance as regards the financial figures. I am more interested in keeping an eye on panel performance using averaging.

Hi there, thanks for the response. Out of interest, does Solar Edge allow you to track panel performance against the warrantied power output? Does it give any advice as to when to clean the panels?

 

[EnergyMutual]

Digester HMI is a Mitsubishi SoftGOT 2000, running over a Mitsi FX3 plc, all programming by ourselves. CHP HMI is Deif. We hardwire from the plc and the Deif to a Mitsi Alpha which monitors all alarms and sends text messages in real time. The SoftGOT also sends emails in real time.
Observing trends in gas quality is a far better predictor of digester upset than FOS/TAC or pH.
No interest at all from our insurers.
This is a screenshot of the digester HMI just now, it is quite busy but a quick glance can show everything is happy. It runs on a big screen, and the screenshot does not do it justice! I have no time for displays which just show spot values, trends are essential.

Thanks for sharing this. Really interesting to see how others setup their dashboards and to see a different process in action. The work we’ve done has focussed mainly on hydro power systems, collecting parameters from existing HMI’s through a python script and importing into an online database for further analysis and presentation. This makes it relatively easy to analyse long term trends and to identify anomalies - efficiency reductions, bearing temperature increases etc.

We’re also experimenting with comparisons between similar systems (owned by different people/companies) so that it is possible to establish a benchmark of how well a hydro/wind/solar/biomass is performing compared to others.

 

[EnergyMutual]

This on woodchip gasification CHP. To be honest I run it flat out, there is very little extra I can do.
But all my data is available automatically, so it makes ofgem data submissions easy.
If doing it again I would run more of it through Node Red. More recent additions I have started to do this, but didn't at the start (3 years ago).
When modifying my original stuff I am slowly moving it all to Node Red and using MQTT (internet of things). It just allows all devices that I add to automatically talk to each other, so automation is very easy to add to and modify.

Thanks for the extra info - a few people have recently mentioned Node Red to me, I haven’t played with this yet but it looks like a really useful solution.

From your perspective, how much pressure is the farming sector under to decarbonise - mainly voluntary at the moment or any policy requirements? Do you think there will be an increasing need to track energy flows for sustainability reporting purposes in the future?

 

[rollestonpark]

Thanks for the extra info - a few people have recently mentioned Node Red to me, I haven’t played with this yet but it looks like a really useful solution.

From your perspective, how much pressure is the farming sector under to decarbonise - mainly voluntary at the moment or any policy requirements? Do you think there will be an increasing need to track energy flows for sustainability reporting purposes in the future?

I think apart from spreading fertiliser, farmers are generally doing quite a bit to decarbonise (lead by government incentives like RHI etc)
I don't think we will need to track energy flows.
But I think long term us spreading fert on to fields might come under scrutiny more. But really if we want wheat, there is not a lot that can be done about fert spreading. They go hand in hand.

Node red is a very good way to manage a heating plant, CHP, boilers, heat consumption, I even run the farmhouse heating system on it.
It's free, works with python, internet of things, MQTT, arduinos, raspberry pi, modbus devices, you name it. It's a great central point for all things to communicate what they are doing and then to make any responses to that info happen.