John Deere To Display New Autonomous Concept at Agritechnica

[Scribus]

I didn't say that at all. I said when has big business ever cared about a few deaths.

We have a death every 200 million miles driven in the UK. I wouldn't call that rare - in fact i'd bet that AV's have already done more than that and in their infancy have only killed 3 people?

Also I doubt we will see unmanned AVs on the road. After all the London undergound has been capable of being autonomous for years now and it still has a driven.

AV tech though has the ability to make the roads safer - half the drivers I see on the road could easily be replaced by an AV!

Honestly, you really do sound confused. Take a step back and think about it.

 

[Scribus]

Have you driven a tesla?

Talking of Teslas here's an interesting site dedicated to recording accidents they are involved in, with references. So far seven deaths are claimed to have involved Tesla with autopilot on of which four have been confirmed.

Tesla Deaths: Digital record of Tesla crashes resulting in death

Tesla Deaths is a record of Tesla accidents that involved the death of a driver, occupant, cyclist, motorcyclist, or pedestrian.

www.tesladeaths.com

 

[Clive]

Actually Clive I don't think you do, certainly not if you rely on the bunch of chancers you mention above. Uber have already killed one pedestrian, Tesla cars, at the the last count, have killed at least three occupants while on auto pilot in between crashing into firetrucks, and Waymo (Google) who started boasting of actually having cars without drivers on the open road have quietly reversed that policy.

So do we take the word of big tech with products to sell or the analysis of these two ladies at the Rand Corporation?

Nidhi Kalra is a senior information scientist at the RAND Corporation, a codirector of RAND’s Center for Decision Making under Uncertainty, and a professor at the Pardee RAND Graduate School. Her research addresses energy, environment, and science and technology policy.

Susan M. Paddock is a senior statistician at the RAND Corporation and a professor at the Pardee RAND Graduate School. Her research includes developing innovative statistical methods, with a focus on Bayesian methods, hierarchical (multilevel) modeling, longitudinal data analysis, and missing data techniques.

Who conclude that -

Our results confirm and quantify that developers of this technology and third-party testers cannot drive their way to safety.

Autonomous Vehicles Cannot Be Test-Driven Enough Miles to Demonstrate Their Safety; Alternative Testing Methods Needed

Under even the most-aggressive test driving assumptions, it would take existing fleets of autonomous vehicles tens and even hundreds of years to log sufficient miles to adequately assess the safety of the vehicles when compared to human-driven vehicles.

www.rand.org

I know who I would rather trust

Lol - you are funny !

google, Tesla, Uber are “chancers” .......... errrrr ok !

 

[Clive]

No new technology works 100% from the start, but that is not reason to not innovate and keep pushing boundaries


how many casualties were their in early days of aviation or crossing oceans ? Should we have not bothered ?

Safe fully autonomous travel will come and when it does it will mean no one never dies on a road again

pretty much ALL of the biggest, richest and most successful companies in the world right now are developing this technology and that means it WILL happen quickly........very quickly

 

[Chris F]

What on earth has that got to do with it?

Because they are constantly collecting data about the traffic around them. The screen shows you all vehicles around you and goes mad when you get to close. They don't have to be running in autonomous mode to be learning. So they will be racking up learning miles all the time.

For motorway driving I'd say they are there already and good enough, but I'd also say motorway deaths are lower too (I am guessing). I wouldn't want one driving me around in a town or city though.

I'm not confused - but I do accept the way the world evolves and it is always at the expense of someone.

 

[Clive]

Talking of Teslas here's an interesting site dedicated to recording accidents they are involved in, with references. So far seven deaths are claimed to have involved Tesla with autopilot on of which four have been confirmed.

Tesla Deaths: Digital record of Tesla crashes resulting in death

Tesla Deaths is a record of Tesla accidents that involved the death of a driver, occupant, cyclist, motorcyclist, or pedestrian.

www.tesladeaths.com

Current tech is like a zx81 compared to modern supercomputer ! The advances will be VERY rapid now

within a decade it will be far safer than any human driver, probably much sooner

10 years is an eternity in software and hardware development

 

[Scribus]

Because they are constantly collecting data about the traffic around them. The screen shows you all vehicles around you and goes mad when you get to close. They don't have to be running in autonomous mode to be learning. So they will be racking up learning miles all the time.

For motorway driving I'd say they are there already and good enough, but I'd also say motorway deaths are lower too (I am guessing). I wouldn't want one driving me around in a town or city though.

I'm not confused - but I do accept the way the world evolves and it is always at the expense of someone.

It evolves at the expense of your common sense more like. Are you really so bedazzled by pretty graphics that you switch any sign of intelligent thinking off? How in any way is what you describe certifiable has a reliable safety system?

 

[Clive]

It evolves at the expense of your common sense more like. Are you really so bedazzled by pretty graphics that you switch any sign of intelligent thinking off? How in any way is what you describe certifiable has a reliable safety system?

here is a moral question for you ?

if we could say that 1000 will die before this tech evolves to become 100% safe and reaches a point where no one ever dies again (saving millions of lives in the future) should we (mankind) persist in it’s development ?


same could be asked of medical innovation - should we not use experimental cancer drugs that may kill the pioneers and therefore potentially turn our back in finding a cure that means no one ever dies of cancer again ?

 

[Scribus]

Current tech is like a zx81 compared to modern supercomputer ! The advances will be VERY rapid now

within a decade it will be far safer than any human driver, probably much sooner

10 years is an eternity in software and hardware development

They were saying that five years ago, and guess what, they are as far away as ever, just like magic batteries for electric cars. You lads need to catch up with the fact that big tech has come to realise that it ain't as easy as they thought.

Now here's a little something, the first flight across the Atlantic on autopilot was in 1947, but planes still have pilots who undertake all ground movements. (Military drones aside), and yet they still aren't totally reliable -

Now The Boeing 737 MAX Has An Autopilot Problem

simpleflying.com

 

[Scribus]

here is a moral question for you ?

if we could say that 1000 will die before this tech evolves to become 100% safe and reaches a point where no one ever dies again (saving millions of lives in the future) should we (mankind) persist in it’s development ?


same could be asked of medical innovation - should we not use experimental cancer drugs that may kill the pioneers and therefore potentially turn our back in finding a cure that means no one ever dies of cancer again ?

Clive, it ain't gonna happen mate, you can throw as much breathless teenage pseudo logic as you like it's just not that simple. This guff you are now repeating has even been dropped by the AV lobby as nonsensical because nothing can ever be 100% safe. Have you stopped to ask how they are actually finding their way round?

 

[Clive]

Clive, it ain't gonna happen mate, you can throw as much breathless teenage pseudo logic as you like it's just not that simple. This guff you are now repeating has even been dropped by the AV lobby as nonsensical because nothing can ever be 100% safe. Have you stopped to ask how they are actually finding their way round?

I think if it was down to your school of logic we would still be hiding in our nice safe caves !

it IS happening - in many case it already HAS happened ! Mankind innovates, puts men and satellites into space - mini communication computers in our pockets, news in our homes and ......... food in our bellies

thank god for the innovators !

The irony of this discussion ....... on the internet, via my iPhone X with the aid of those satellites and countless other once impossible innovation is not lost on me right now, Utterly impossible just a few years ago until those “chancers” you mention came along

 

[Scribus]

I think if it was down to your school of logic we would still be hiding in our nice safe caves !

it IS happening - in many case it already HAS happened ! Mankind innovates, puts men and satellites into space - mini communication computers in our pockets, news in our homes and ......... food in our bellies

thank god for the innovators !

The irony of this discussion ....... on the internet, via my iPhone X with the aid of those satellites and countless other once impossible innovation is not lost on me right now, Utterly impossible just a few years ago until those “chancers” you mention came along

Mankind was meant to be on Mars by now but we've even given up on the Moon. Why? Because manned space travel is nowhere near as easy as was envisaged, reality took over from dreams and it is the same for this great 'new mobilty' whizz bang scheme that we are not hearing quite so much about nowdays.

Lets look at these chancers -

Uber, having killed a pedestrian with one of its AV's , is now reduced to delivering pizzas by bicycle while Wikipedia has this to say about Google -

Criticism of Google includes concern for tax avoidance, misuse and manipulation of search results, its use of others' intellectual property, concerns that its compilation of data may violate people's privacy and collaboration with Google Earth by the military to spy on users,[1] censorship of search results and content, and the energy consumption of its servers as well as concerns over traditional business issues such as monopoly, restraint of trade, antitrust, "idea borrowing", and being an "Ideological Echo Chamber".

Criticism of Google - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As for Musk then he stands to cash in a €50bn dollar pacycheck if Tesla meets certain targets. He's not about saving the planet or advancing civilisation, just getting stupefyingly wealthy.

Now, would you care to define 'my school of logic'.

 

[Clive]

Mankind was meant to be on Mars by now but we've even given up on the Moon. Why? Because manned space travel is nowhere near as easy as was envisaged, reality took over from dreams and it is the same for this great 'new mobilty' whizz bang scheme that we are not hearing quite so much about nowdays.

Lets look at these chancers -

Uber, having killed a pedestrian with one of its AV's , is now reduced to delivering pizzas by bicycle while Wikipedia has this to say about Google -

Criticism of Google includes concern for tax avoidance, misuse and manipulation of search results, its use of others' intellectual property, concerns that its compilation of data may violate people's privacy and collaboration with Google Earth by the military to spy on users,[1] censorship of search results and content, and the energy consumption of its servers as well as concerns over traditional business issues such as monopoly, restraint of trade, antitrust, "idea borrowing", and being an "Ideological Echo Chamber".

Criticism of Google - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As for Musk then he stands to cash in a €50bn dollar pacycheck if Tesla meets certain targets. He's not about saving the planet or advancing civilisation, just getting stupefyingly wealthy.

Now, would you care to define 'my school of logic'.

If we hadn’t been to space (a extremely dangerous thing to do). we would not have those satellites - the world today would look and function very differently without them

You clearly don’t like google, apple, Tesla, Microsoft, Facebook,Twitter, Uber........... etc but these companies and the men behind them are the most successful and richest on the planet - they are certainly not “Chancers” or passing fads

that success is for a simple reason - within just a couple of decades thy have charged technology and therefore our world for ever and without doubt they will continue to do so

right now autonomous travel is firmly in their sights and only a fool would bet against their inevitable success

 

[Scribus]

If we hadn’t been to space (a extremely dangerous thing to do). we would not have those satellites - the world today would look and function very differently without them

You clearly don’t like google, apple, Tesla, Microsoft, Facebook,Twitter, Uber........... etc but these companies and the men behind them are the most successful and richest on the planet - they are certainly not “Chancers” or passing fads

that success is for a simple reason - within just a couple of decades thy have charged technology and therefore our world for ever and without doubt they will continue to do so

right now autonomous travel is firmly in their sights and only a fool would bet against their inevitable success

No, they haven't changed technology at all, technology applies to all spheres of science not just computing. All they have done is adapt it to make money for themselves which is simply business as normal.

I have pointed out that we already have autonomous travel in aircraft and have had for over 70 years, but the systems are not allowed to fly unsupervised for they still get it wrong.

 

[Clive]

No, they haven't changed technology at all, technology applies to all spheres of science not just computing. All they have done is adapt it to make money for themselves which is simply business as normal.

I have pointed out that we already have autonomous travel in aircraft and have had for over 70 years, but the systems are not allowed to fly unsupervised for they still get it wrong.

possibly the most ridiculous post I’ve ever read on TFF

You really think google, apple, Microsoft, Uber and social media etc hasn’t changed anything ........... really !

I would suggest they have changed more in the last 10 years than has ever been changed by mankind

I think it’s time you accepted that the internet is actually a real thing already,, that farmers will be using fully autonomous tractors in the future (they already are in fact) and that cars will not need drivers (such machines already exist) - all this EXISTING technology will improve to a point where it is both cheaper and better than a human (the internet already is)




ironic that without at least 2 of the above innovations this discussion wouldn’t even. be possible

 

[Chris F]

It evolves at the expense of your common sense more like. Are you really so bedazzled by pretty graphics that you switch any sign of intelligent thinking off? How in any way is what you describe certifiable has a reliable safety system?

No - progress has always been at the expense of lives. Rail travel, first cars, space exploration, oil exploration, mining, industry, forging, you name it, people have died in pursuit of evolution. That's reality, that not being bedazzled by anything. I just don't see AVs any differently. They will happen. I don't own one and as have said wouldn't trust the tech in a town or city - did you even read that bit? I said I don't consider them safe in towns.

You have never driven one - but on a motorway they a only a small step further than adaptive cruise control that is already fitted to millions of cars in the UK. Which works, is safe and has saved lived.

 

[radu]

progress will be made, whether we as individuals want it or not, and it will cost innocent lives. The progress has never stopped since the beginning of mankind and only a fool would think it will stop now. I, as an entrepreneur, can't wait for autonomous tractors (and cars too).

That being said, is the JD concept functional or just a mock-up? battery operated or cable, like the old one?
Also, what happened to the Case/New Holland autonomous tractors that were in the news a few years back? are they still working on them or put them on standby? having had diesel engines, they looked more promising for the near future...

 

[Scribus]

possibly the most ridiculous post I’ve ever read on TFF

You really think google, apple, Microsoft, Uber and social media etc hasn’t changed anything ........... really !

I would suggest they have changed more in the last 10 years than has ever been changed by mankind

I think it’s time you accepted that the internet is actually a real thing already,, that farmers will be using fully autonomous tractors in the future (they already are in fact) and that cars will not need drivers (such machines already exist) - all this EXISTING technology will improve to a point where it is both cheaper and better than a human (the internet already is)




ironic that without at least 2 of the above innovations this discussion wouldn’t even. be possible

Oh come off it, I clearly said that they have not changed technology, only used it to suit themselves. Why is it you that techno heads can't comprehend English? You are all the same, just as soon as someone dare question the great god Technology it's all about taking a meaning that any half intelligent fellow knows was not intended. You further compound your idiocy by sugesting I am unaware of the size and function of the internet when i have pointed out in the past that I used to build websites, which is precisely why I question the constant stream of techno BS we are subjected to on a dailŷ basis.

 

[Scribus]

progress will be made, whether we as individuals want it or not, and it will cost innocent lives. The progress has never stopped since the beginning of mankind and only a fool would think it will stop now. I, as an entrepreneur, can't wait for autonomous tractors (and cars too).

That being said, is the JD concept functional or just a mock-up? battery operated or cable, like the old one?
Also, what happened to the Case/New Holland autonomous tractors that were in the news a few years back? are they still working on them or put them on standby? having had diesel engines, they looked more promising for the near future...

Let us trust that it's not your AV that gets hacked and weaponised, there is far more to their introduction than whizz bang tecno stuff.

 

[Clive]

Let us trust that it's not your AV that gets hacked and weaponised, there is far more to their introduction than whizz bang tecno stuff.

ahhhhh, I understand now - you are one of those nut job conspiracy theorists

get one of these hats and you will be safe from "them"