Low Line Cattle

[unlacedgecko]

If it's just to tidy up grass, then how about some Spring born native breed bullocks of the hardy breeds off a hill farm? Keep them over the Winter then pass them on when they've done their job? Would save looking after cows, unless you particularly want cows instead.

I do quite like the idea of cows. Building equity appeals.

I think they would be useful for improving pasture as well. I think lots of HLS or ex HLS ground will shortly be available in my area. I think a suckler cow would be the best way to profitably improve this ground.

 

[S J H]

I do quite like the idea of cows. Building equity appeals.

I think they would be useful for improving pasture as well. I think lots of HLS or ex HLS ground will shortly be available in my area. I think a suckler cow would be the best way to profitably improve this ground.

Do they have to be native for his @unlacedgecko ? Cows have got to get smaller if carcass weights keep reducing.

 

[Smudge]

Have you looked at Welsh Black cattle?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I do quite like the idea of cows. Building equity appeals.

I think they would be useful for improving pasture as well. I think lots of HLS or ex HLS ground will shortly be available in my area. I think a suckler cow would be the best way to profitably improve this ground.

Get them rearing 2 calves to weaning, then decide the best use for both her own calf, and whatever you put on the other side.

Better use of the grass to simply sell calves, IMO, than tie it up for longer to make less income?
If you only need topping machines over summer, have 3 animals grazing then and back to one by the winter, the extra calf means you can afford to offload when suits you best rather than being a slave to the beef price - leave that to the others.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Do they have to be native for his @unlacedgecko ? Cows have got to get smaller if carcass weights keep reducing.

No, I'm not breed blind at all. I just looked at lowline and saw higher average KO%.

Whatever they are they must fit my breeding female criteria

Calve at 24months within a tight calving pattern
Calve unassisted (I will always work off farm so I will not compromise on this point at all ever)
Easily get back in calf to fit the calving pattern
Grow calf to weaning off grass only
Outwinter, utilising BCS as necessary

I see my role as grazing management and culling the weak. Everything else is down to the cow. I want stock that work for me not the other way around.

I don't forsee owning any machinery other than my quad and van (possibly a pickup?), so I don't want anything that requires concentrates or buildings.

From what I've seen and read, natives best fit the above.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Get them rearing 2 calves to weaning, then decide the best use for both her own calf, and whatever you put on the other side.

Better use of the grass to simply sell calves, IMO, than tie it up for longer to make less income?
If you only need topping machines over summer, have 3 animals grazing then and back to one by the winter, the extra calf means you can afford to offload when suits you best rather than being a slave to the beef price - leave that to the others.

Lots of iceberg diseases in UK beef and dairy herds. Makes buying in calves for that quite risky.

 

[Danllan]

Yes I read your thread. I was wondering if things had advanced any since then.

That price is ridiculous. They'd have to be sub £750 before I consider them. Otherwise why not just get kiwi cross draft cows and AI?

That last is an option, certainly. But, for a change, the Lowlines really are as good - in every way - as the hype would have you believe.

Were I a billionaire and had I my altruistic hat on, I'd be starting half a dozen seed herds and passing the breeders on at a loss as a favour to UK farming; but although I count my blessings, compared to such a rich fellow I am relatively poor, and forking ~£50k out to start a relatively small herd was not on at the time due to other necessities. (Thinking on it, that would get you a pretty good sized herd of any decent native breeds)

For all I know they already have reduced in price; if not then they will come down, and when it happens it will be a fairly sharp fall to a more realistic sum per head. I don't really blame anyone for the asking price, they had to do a lot of work and spend a lot of cash to set up their herd, and they need to milk the breed for everything they can before numbers a re such that their 'monopoly' has gone. Besides, I guess a fair part of their sales go to daftly well-off people with a paddock...

All that written, and love my native breeds though I do (enough to keep a few...), if the Lowlines get realistic sooner rather than later, I'll switch.

 

[unlacedgecko]

That last is an option, certainly. But, for a change, the Lowlines really are as good - in every way - as the hype would have you believe.

Were I a billionaire and had I my altruistic hat on, I'd be starting half a dozen seed herds and passing the breeders on at a loss as a favour to UK farming; but although I count my blessings, compared to such a rich fellow I am relatively poor, and forking ~£50k out to start a relatively small herd was not on at the time due to other necessities. (Thinking on it, that would get you a pretty good sized herd of any decent native breeds)

For all I know they already have reduced in price; if not then they will come down, and when it happens it will be a fairly sharp fall to a more realistic sum per head. I don't really blame anyone for the asking price, they had to do a lot of work and spend a lot of cash to set up their herd, and they need to milk the breed for everything they can before numbers a re such that their 'monopoly' has gone. Besides, I guess a fair part of their sales go to daftly well-off people with a paddock...

All that written, and love my native breeds though I do (enough to keep a few...), if the Lowlines get realistic sooner rather than later, I'll switch.

3 crosses and they're effectively pure anyway.

When you say they are as good as the hype, can they produce a commercially viable carcass? Or is it one for the direct sellers only?

 

[S J H]

No, I'm not breed blind at all. I just looked at lowline and saw higher average KO%.

Whatever they are they must fit my breeding female criteria

Calve at 24months within a tight calving pattern
Calve unassisted (I will always work off farm so I will not compromise on this point at all ever)
Easily get back in calf to fit the calving pattern
Grow calf to weaning off grass only
Outwinter, utilising BCS as necessary

I see my role as grazing management and culling the weak. Everything else is down to the cow. I want stock that work for me not the other way around.

I don't forsee owning any machinery other than my quad and van (possibly a pickup?), so I don't want anything that requires concentrates or buildings.

From what I've seen and read, natives best fit the above.

Sorry I meant native for hls, I didn't realise this breed was native.

I think you've got the right plan ?

 

[unlacedgecko]

Sorry I meant native for hls, I didn't realise this breed was native.

I think you've got the right plan ?

They're a native Angus that's been on holiday to Australia.

If HLS agreement specifies cattle breed, and it doesn't fit with my plan, then I just won't take the land.

I'm not going to be jumping through uneconomic hoops to enrich landowners via the public purse.

 

[neilo]

No, I'm not breed blind at all. I just looked at lowline and saw higher average KO%.

Whatever they are they must fit my breeding female criteria

Calve at 24months within a tight calving pattern
Calve unassisted (I will always work off farm so I will not compromise on this point at all ever)
Easily get back in calf to fit the calving pattern
Grow calf to weaning off grass only
Outwinter, utilising BCS as necessary

I see my role as grazing management and culling the weak. Everything else is down to the cow. I want stock that work for me not the other way around.

I don't forsee owning any machinery other than my quad and van (possibly a pickup?), so I don't want anything that requires concentrates or buildings.

From what I've seen and read, natives best fit the above.

We had a neighbour back home that took on some adjoining grass keep (we had the other half, weren’t ever allowed to improve it, and it remained absolute sh*te for the 30 years we took it). Much of his was steep ridge and furrow, covered in old grass and buttercups, in a hls but cheap.
To stock it, he bought a ruck of Angus x dairy heifer calves when they were about a fiver each, reared them on, then ran an ‘easy calving type’ (cheap) with them. They never had much attention, ate rubbish, made 500kg (max I should think) cows but reared some belting cattle every year.

With Angus x heifers being cheap again now, would that make a better option than expensive, imported cattle?

 

[Dan@JF]

I have 20 odd of them and think they are great. Mostly due to the nature of my work and ground as they are very docile, don't make a mess and prefer to be outside. Ive picked up lots of free "conservation" grazing due to their size and nature and they do a great job at looking well on average ground. The beef is as good as I've had and although they are smaller the meat to bone ratio is very impressive. They also calf themselves very happily.

Honest downsides I'm finding is that they are obviously not going to be a competitive abattoir or market beef animal and meat has to be sold locally, however there is a growing market for that here. I have a couple of dairy cows that my bull struggles to mate, however I know of some bulls being used successfully on dairy farms.

This is a 3 month old heifer calf born from a heifer, growth rates are impressive on only grass. (taken today)

 

[Henarar]

No, I'm not breed blind at all. I just looked at lowline and saw higher average KO%.

Whatever they are they must fit my breeding female criteria

Calve at 24months within a tight calving pattern
Calve unassisted (I will always work off farm so I will not compromise on this point at all ever)
Easily get back in calf to fit the calving pattern
Grow calf to weaning off grass only
Outwinter, utilising BCS as necessary

I see my role as grazing management and culling the weak. Everything else is down to the cow. I want stock that work for me not the other way around.

I don't forsee owning any machinery other than my quad and van (possibly a pickup?), so I don't want anything that requires concentrates or buildings.

From what I've seen and read, natives best fit the above.

your second point seems to be the most important to you, you should start a thread asking about breeds/types that will do this every time

 

[hendrebc]

Do the same as you would with your sheep. Get some hill cows and improve them as you go. Welsh black cows with Charollais calves used to be a very popular cross round here. You could probably do the same with Highlands or Galloways or any other small hairy hill breed I would think. Your problem will be that the pure hill steers will be slow to grow and finish but that will always be a problem if you want sub 500kg cows. Shame that the penalties for sub 250kg carcasses is so harsh but you still have to produce what your buyer wants.

 

[unlacedgecko]

your second point seems to be the most important to you, you should start a thread asking about breeds/types that will do this every time

You're right.

So an animal that can be outwintered and calves unassisted without being given away at sale. Does such a thing exist?

 

[unlacedgecko]

I have 20 odd of them and think they are great. Mostly due to the nature of my work and ground as they are very docile, don't make a mess and prefer to be outside. Ive picked up lots of free "conservation" grazing due to their size and nature and they do a great job at looking well on average ground. The beef is as good as I've had and although they are smaller the meat to bone ratio is very impressive. They also calf themselves very happily.

Honest downsides I'm finding is that they are obviously not going to be a competitive abattoir or market beef animal and meat has to be sold locally, however there is a growing market for that here. I have a couple of dairy cows that my bull struggles to mate, however I know of some bulls being used successfully on dairy farms.

This is a 3 month old heifer calf born from a heifer, growth rates are impressive on only grass. (taken today)
View attachment 828461

Nice cattle. Have you ever tried something like a Charollais on them?

Do you sell heifers?

 

[goodevans]

View attachment 828404View attachment 828405View attachment 828406

The heifers in your avatar look interesting,are they breeders

 

[Henarar]

You're right.

So an animal that can be outwintered and calves unassisted without being given away at sale. Does such a thing exist?

I wouldn't claim that our cows will always calve unassisted but there maybe some that don't help any cows calve but its one thing them calving on there own its another thing to have a live calf up and sucking every time without any intervention at all but some may achieve this

 

[unlacedgecko]

I wouldn't claim that our cows will always calve unassisted but there maybe some that don't help any cows calve but its one thing them calving on there own its another thing to have a live calf up and sucking every time without any intervention at all but some may achieve this

Obviously you can't guarantee to wean 100% every year.

But I think calf mortality loss of 5%? would be acceptable.

 

[Dan@JF]

Nice cattle. Have you ever tried something like a Charollais on them?

Do you sell heifers?

No, Im trying to build a quality pedigree herd slowly so haven't tried anything else. I have 1 half x AA ( a BIG bull) heifer ,which is a nice beast and a heifer calved it easily. i will put a Lowline bull back over it this month. I have always thought they would cross nicely with a Hereford and have seen some nice jersey x steers that finished well but again didn't have the size.

I am not selling any heifers this year but will do in the future.