Neighbour has redirected overflow of their lake into our field

[AbleGreen]

We had a very similar situation to this with the Canal and Rivers Trust. They randomly decided to re-use an overflow weir that had been disused for atleast the last 42 years. The weir used to discharge water from the canal during extreme weather events and feed it into the watercourse that crosses our farm.

Long story short, there is no longer enough capacity in the watercourse due to upstream discharges to take the canal overflow.

After months of battling and threats of legal action from both sides we have now come to an agreement.

We employed Trivium Land and a Solicitor to act on our behalf. I think without this we wouldnt have stood a chance as the default reaction we got is that the Canal and Rivers Trust have statutory powers to do so and we were bound to receive the flows.

 

[Phil H]

Correct me if I'm wrong but ...
Natural water drainage is not covered by case law but escape of water from man made construction onto neighbouring property is a tort in law. Once you control it you are responsible for it. The remedy is damages or injunction with the loser usually paying the legal costs. The latter issue is guaranteed to focus minds.

 

[Dry Rot]

This ^^^^'. One of the few legal cases I remember from college....

Rylands_v_Fletcher

 

[Phil H]

This ^^^^'. One of the few legal cases I remember from college....

Rylands_v_Fletcher

That's the one.

 

[melted welly]

Cheers all, is there any yard stick in which to measure crop damage? I wouldn't mind just sending them a letter outlining the potential charges if they don't fix it permanently. I will pop down with a spade later and fill it in if they haven't already.

I had an incident with scorch from a neighbouring property (non agricultural). You could see the extreme damage with naked eye, but wondered about potential yield loss further in.

Soil essentials did a green area map from nvdi satellite images spanning a month or so, cost around £100 for access to the images and we settled with neighbour no further questions asked.

The satellite images were pretty damming as you could see when and where it started, correlate that with prevailing wind at the time and even identify the exact gap in the hedge where the worst of the vapour was coming thru the boundary and to the varying extent where the crop was affected. Then worked out a rough reduction in yield potential to quantify financial loss.

If you think it’s a big enough area affected, worth giving them a call, just need the fid number and they do it remotely.

If nothing else, satellite images and an excel sheet of figures looks like you mean business!

 

[Young McDonald]

the parish council's contractor has opened a drain into our field. - what are my rights if they come back and change their mind? I should add we are tenants and the agent has asked us to initially take the lead in sorting it out.

they have you bent over at the moment because they are the landowner (parish to boot) - meaning you would have to probably employ a solicitor / "experts" to even instigate that they "did the dirt and watery" on you.

(unless it is explicit in the lease that this is not allowed, and you want to annoy your landlord etc ?)

- as you need to sort it out amicably (...) i would suggest maybe offer to sort the irrigation along the tree line at "reasonable expense" (i.e. youself / other) and see what the agent says ? (- that way you also get a nice little "increased biodiversity" stream to go with your field ?)

 

[Formatted]

(unless it is explicit in the lease that this is not allowed, and you want to annoy your landlord etc ?)

Parish council is not my landlord, the County Council is.

I've got a meeting with them this morning to look at drainage options, there is about an acre of grass we couldn't cut so going to be asking them to pay for the bales.

 

[Dry Rot]

It is for the landlord's agent to sort out, surely? The tenant has contracted to lease land from the landlord in a particular state so he can farm it. That state has now changed. The landlord needs to put things back to where they were before the flooding occurred. The agent is acting for the landlord and represents him in this matter. He is passing the buck to the tenant and that needs to be stopped now -- in my view.

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/3-107-6097?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

 

[Bongodog]

It is for the landlord's agent to sort out, surely? The tenant has contracted to lease land from the landlord in a particular state so he can farm it. That state has now changed. The landlord needs to put things back to where they were before the flooding occurred. The agent is acting for the landlord and represents him in this matter. He is passing the buck to the tenant and that needs to be stopped now -- in my view.

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/3-107-6097?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

As the land is being rented from a County Council it will probably be an in house agent, Councils generaly move at a snails pace and if left to the Council it won't just be a matter of losing part of the 2021 crop, it will probably be a case of losing 2022's and 2023's as well.

 

[Dry Rot]

As the land is being rented from a County Council it will probably be an in house agent, Councils generaly move at a snails pace and if left to the Council it won't just be a matter of losing part of the 2021 crop, it will probably be a case of losing 2022's and 2023's as well.

I agree. But if you want to beat them, you have to keep struggling. Civil servants (and I class anyone to do with councils and committees as being much the same) will take the easiest course and just expect you to be quiet and give up and go away. I once knew a man with out much who just kept on fighting. When I asked him why did it, he said, "Oh I know I probably won't win but at least I remind the barstewards I exist". Like that old colonel told me, "Just keep on politely asking the question. It's very difficult for them to ignore you for ever".

 

[Young McDonald]

Parish council is not my landlord, the County Council is.

I've got a meeting with them this morning to look at drainage options, there is about an acre of grass we couldn't cut so going to be asking them to pay for the bales.

sorry (my misunderstanding); BUT! makes no real difference - they have played their hand are welcoming you to "hard ball law" via the old "contractors and agents"; "no we didn't / blame the "contractors"...

it's summer now and you have a coy pond instead of grass ? - if you ask for bales then you will ask for bales EVERY year ?

(or why not ask them to pay (...you) for sorting out the caused need for irrigation ? (- unless for "re-wilding")

i can write them a "McKenzie Friend" legal letter if you want but in your best interests - it is probably not best to have me arguing for you because i may cause more trouble...

 

[Formatted]

We have come to an amicable solution that involves some recompense and a plan to fix the issue. Thanks for the advice, sorry that this hasn't ended in the blaze of glory and lawyers letters that some of you wanted!

 

[Bongodog]

We have come to an amicable solution that involves some recompense and a plan to fix the issue. Thanks for the advice, sorry that this hasn't ended in the blaze of glory and lawyers letters that some of you wanted!

You've completely ignored a TFF golden rule the one that states "Parish Councils are full of incomers who have an inbuilt hatred of the rural way of life" and must not be engaged with other than via legal representation

Good to see that the matter has been resolved for 2021 season, the way some were going it would have still been ongoing for 2023

 

[Young McDonald]

We have come to an amicable solution that involves some recompense and a plan to fix the issue. Thanks for the advice, sorry that this hasn't ended in the blaze of glory and lawyers letters that some of you wanted!

this was not wanted... but is a position people find themselves in (P.S. in england they are called "solicitors").

- glad the country council brainwashed you into believing the situation ended "amicably..."; despite not ended / offer of help withdrawn / "enjoy your digging for no reason"...