New to whole crop silage, any advice?

[ffermwrnewydd]

We want to grow some whole crop silage (wheat) under-sown with grass on our farm (beef and sheep). Does anyone have any advice as I have heard varying advice on this.

My questions are: Can it be grown at altitude (is 1000ft too high),
What are the problems with under sown grass, does it establish and do you have to go in after the wheat to sow separately?
Are there more problems with vermin with whole crop than other silage.
Can you big bale or is a clamp necessary and a bit of a random one -
Has anyone tried harrowing a very open permanent pasture and drilling directly into that rather then the other way around? Thanks in advance.

 

[valtraman]

I’ve been growing it last 3 years now, we are an upland farm, don’t think it really matters of ure height more depends on what ph of soil etc . We grew wheat first two years undersown with Italian grass but last year we put barley in. Finding the cattle want to eat the barley better than the wheat. This year planning on grass seeding out properly so will undersow with a permanent grass mix with no clover then once harvested will run over field with Opico grass still and sow the clover . Always put ours in pit think rodents would find the bales too easy

 

[valtraman]

I’ve been growing it last 3 years now, we are an upland farm, don’t think it really matters of ure height more depends on what ph of soil etc . We grew wheat first two years undersown with Italian grass but last year we put barley in. Finding the cattle want to eat the barley better than the wheat. This year planning on grass seeding out properly so will undersow with a permanent grass mix with no clover then once harvested will run over field with Opico grass still and sow the clover . Always put ours in pit think rodents would find the bales too easy

As for sowing , the barley or wheat goes in via combi drill. We plough and Harrow down first then straight in behind with opico grass Harrow drill to sow grass then we just flat roll it.

 

[upnortheast]

Can it be grown at altitude (is 1000ft too high),

Depends There are good farms @ 1000 feet & crap farms @ 1000 ft. Do you usually grow cereals ?

Personal preference - I think it`s better to reseed after the whole crop is off. Whole crop usually ready late july / earley aug. Grass seeds in 1st half Aug, will be nicely established before winter

 

[buffalo_soldier]

Been doing it on and off years now. Good way of doing a spring reseed.

I've found a barley/vetch mix works best for me.

Only ever clamped it mind. To bale the stuff you would have to go much sooner I guess. So would not have the same punch.

Might have a pic or two on the computer with an analysis.

 

[Wilkster]

Usually do spring barley undersown with grass here.
Combi drill barley, roll, comb harrow grass seed and roll again.
Mow when the barley grains are milky and bale a couple of days after.
Always stack it separately as it’s a bar steward to keep rats out

 

[Dog Bowl]

Have grown wholecrop of different crops for 14 years now. I have tried the following:
Spring Barley and Peas
Spring Wheat
Spring Oats and Barley
Spring Barley
Spring Barley and Vetch

I used to love the peas and barley but always felt that for the small increase in protein it never justified the excessive price for the pea seed and I always struggled with birds taking a lot of the peas out the seedbed.

Spring wheat never yielded very well

Spring oats and peas looks great, never analyses well though and often find the oats never ripen at the same time as the peas

I now grow straight spring Barley.

Always direct cut and clamp it. Always aim for the grain to be at the soft cheddar cheese stage.

I used to undersow. Whilst it works for establishing a grass ley and you don’t really get any ‘dead time’ waiting for a ley to establish, it always flattered to decieve. Often the leys were quite gappy and often if it was wet before harvesting the wholecrop we then hurt the ley with trailers driving over the soft ground.

I find that getting wholecrop in earlier, with a higher seed rate, it yields far better and harvesting in mid July gives you a great opportunity to get grass in in good time. I often get a cut or graze from the reseed in sept/ October.

I’ve rambled on a bit but those are my thoughts on my experiences!

 

[kill]

Usually do spring barley undersown with grass here.
Combi drill barley, roll, comb harrow grass seed and roll again.
Mow when the barley grains are milky and bale a couple of days after.
Always stack it separately as it’s a bar steward to keep rats out

I done very similar last year and wrapped them with 8 layers of wrap and placed them along a cow track 2 wide with at least a 18 inch gap in all directions. Cows love it and saved my grass seed underneath in the heat but probably get 1-2 yellow buckets of stones per bale but very little waste even the fat hen  is happily eaten.
No rat damage seen yet!!!!

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Rats will love you if you make bales
I would go with oats but whatever cut seed rate if you under sow

 

[KB6930]

If you're undersowing grain then sow the grain at a reduced seed rate as you won't get 2 good crops if the grain is too thick you won't get grass but if the grass is too good at least you get a good take of grass.

As for clamping or baleing clamp is better for vermin but only if you can hide it in the middle with plenty grass on top we've baled it before and is good feed but if the vermin find it they'll go right through everything around it to check if there's any more . We baled 50 bales of peas we never seen a rat to this day but they found the peas and had a nibble at 300 bales of grass 50ft away as well just little holes but they tried most of them !!!!

 

[Scholsey]

Have grown wholecrop of different crops for 14 years now. I have tried the following:
Spring Barley and Peas
Spring Wheat
Spring Oats and Barley
Spring Barley
Spring Barley and Vetch

I used to love the peas and barley but always felt that for the small increase in protein it never justified the excessive price for the pea seed and I always struggled with birds taking a lot of the peas out the seedbed.

Spring wheat never yielded very well

Spring oats and peas looks great, never analyses well though and often find the oats never ripen at the same time as the peas

I now grow straight spring Barley.

Always direct cut and clamp it. Always aim for the grain to be at the soft cheddar cheese stage.

I used to undersow. Whilst it works for establishing a grass ley and you don’t really get any ‘dead time’ waiting for a ley to establish, it always flattered to decieve. Often the leys were quite gappy and often if it was wet before harvesting the wholecrop we then hurt the ley with trailers driving over the soft ground.

I find that getting wholecrop in earlier, with a higher seed rate, it yields far better and harvesting in mid July gives you a great opportunity to get grass in in good time. I often get a cut or graze from the reseed in sept/ October.

I’ve rambled on a bit but those are my thoughts on my experiences!

Very similar findings to you, grow straight spring barley but experimenting with late sown winter wheat (organic).

 

[AndrewM]

done spring barley+ peas, and spring oats/peas as bales, cattle love it. Unfortunately rats also love it, so we try and get all the bales fed before xmas.

how about wholecrop w barley? would be off in june, plenty of time for reseeding? undersowing is always going to compromise yield of the wholecrop.

cant see direct drilling into old ley will produce much wholecrop unless you have sprayed off the grass

 

[oldoaktree]

Grew some a few years back barley peas, oats peas , barley oats . Grow what you want . Oats will grow anywhere.
I was originally going to bale it but advised not for people who had done it and lost quite a bit to rats ( it was my bale wrapping guy ) so put it in an old pit and was also told to put a layer of grass on the top to stop the smell attracting the rats.

 

[ffermwrnewydd]

Have grown wholecrop of different crops for 14 years now. I have tried the following:
Spring Barley and Peas
Spring Wheat
Spring Oats and Barley
Spring Barley
Spring Barley and Vetch

I used to love the peas and barley but always felt that for the small increase in protein it never justified the excessive price for the pea seed and I always struggled with birds taking a lot of the peas out the seedbed.

Spring wheat never yielded very well

Spring oats and peas looks great, never analyses well though and often find the oats never ripen at the same time as the peas

I now grow straight spring Barley.

Always direct cut and clamp it. Always aim for the grain to be at the soft cheddar cheese stage.

I used to undersow. Whilst it works for establishing a grass ley and you don’t really get any ‘dead time’ waiting for a ley to establish, it always flattered to decieve. Often the leys were quite gappy and often if it was wet before harvesting the wholecrop we then hurt the ley with trailers driving over the soft ground.

I find that getting wholecrop in earlier, with a higher seed rate, it yields far better and harvesting in mid July gives you a great opportunity to get grass in in good time. I often get a cut or graze from the reseed in sept/ October.

I’ve rambled on a bit but those are my thoughts on my experiences!

 

[ffermwrnewydd]

Thank you for the comprehensive reply (and other peoples too ) I am assuming you are not using any herbicides in these mixes especially when you are using something like vetch or peas - have you ever used a P-em herbicide or not felt the need?

 

[ffermwrnewydd]

Thank you - I'm wondering if maize silage has similar deliciousness for rats or whether whole crop is a particular delicacy

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Thank you - I'm wondering if maize silage has similar deliciousness for rats or whether whole crop is a particular delicacy

Whole crop is like a magnet .I have seen them destroy a whole stack of 300 bales if left for a Month without interference

 

[ffermwrnewydd]

Whole crop is like a magnet .I have seen them destroy a whole stack of 300 bales if left for a Month without interference

That doesn't fill me with confidence!!

 

[upnortheast]

I used to undersow. Whilst it works for establishing a grass ley and you don’t really get any ‘dead time’ waiting for a ley to establish, it always flattered to decieve. Often the leys were quite gappy and often if it was wet before harvesting the wholecrop we then hurt the ley with trailers driving over the soft ground.

I find that getting wholecrop in earlier, with a higher seed rate, it yields far better and harvesting in mid July gives you a great opportunity to get grass in in good time. I often get a cut or graze from the reseed in sept/ October.

Agree with @Dog Bowl as above
We use Winter Wheat. It`s bomb proof Seem to get a decent crop regardless of weather challenges
Unlike Maize - certainly here in the North East,

 

[Derrick Hughes]

That doesn't fill me with confidence!!

They need to be in single rows if you have the room. But pit is better