OSR to spray or not to spray

[jack6480]

Agro is pushing me to spray, kestrel, toprex, dowshield and mobo onto my osr, crop looks really well at the minute and growing fast with the recent warmer weather. My plan was to only go on with trace elements and then n when flowering starts. It’s had nothing so far except a pre em.

I’m keen to leave it alone but my man is very keen to spray!

 

[Ugo79]

Agro is pushing me to spray, kestrel, toprex, dowshield and mobo onto my osr, crop looks really well at the minute and growing fast with the recent warmer weather. My plan was to only go on with trace elements and then n when flowering starts. It’s had nothing so far except a pre em.

I’m keen to leave it alone but my man is very keen to spray!

So many questions...
What is the variety?
Do you have active Light Leaf Spot?
What is the Green Area Index?
Does the crop need growth regulating?
How much N has the crop had to date and how much do you plan to put on?
What are your yield expectations?
Is there lots of Mayweed/Thistles?

 

[tr250]

And is he independent or on Chem sales commission

 

[DrWazzock]

I'm sick of spending money for very little if any result so other than a few trace elements and the N, thats it till desiccation.

 

[Feldspar]

Agro is pushing me to spray, kestrel, toprex, dowshield and mobo onto my osr, crop looks really well at the minute and growing fast with the recent warmer weather. My plan was to only go on with trace elements and then n when flowering starts. It’s had nothing so far except a pre em.

I’m keen to leave it alone but my man is very keen to spray!

I would say don't bother with the Toprex, probably don't bother with the boron (if that's what mobo is), don't bother with Kestrel (and only use Proline rather than the poorer VFM Kestrel if your variety is rated say 5 or below and you're in a high pressure area, and even then if you've done an autumn spray it's quite likely you'll get no response) and bother with the Shield assuming you can find some BLWs. I would have put some N and S on by now and would have the whole lot on well before flowering.

I'd be willing to bet you have an Agrii agronomist.

There you go. Armchair agronomy.

 

[jack6480]

This one field of mine, varieties are elga and nakita.
Looks good apart from some patches of pigeon damage and where it didn’t come due to the dry weather last summer.

There’s signs of disease on lower leaves but all the new growth looks healthy. Was going to go on with trace elements as soil test show low in boron molybdenum

 

[jack6480]

So many questions...
What is the variety?
Do you have active Light Leaf Spot?
What is the Green Area Index?
Does the crop need growth regulating?
How much N has the crop had to date and how much do you plan to put on?
What are your yield expectations?
Is there lots of Mayweed/Thistles?

Elga, first year conventional
Can see it lower leaves
No N yet
Probably will get 60kg of n at flowering
Usually yield between 1.5 and 1.7t/acre
Quite a bit of may weed in thin areas

 

[Feldspar]

Elga, first year conventional
Can see it lower leaves
No N yet
Probably will get 60kg of n at flowering
Usually yield between 1.5 and 1.7t/acre
Quite a bit of may weed in thin areas

Assume you mean Elgar? Did you put an autumn fungicide on? If so, what? If you have, I would say don't bother with the Kestrel because both those varieties have high LLS scores and from NIAB trials an autumn application alone gives a higher margin than an autumn and spring. If you want to be rigorous, and this is a really good agronomist should do, incubate some leaves and see if the threshold has been reached. Even so, I think the threshold is out of date now given the recent work on OSR fungicide responses. It just isn't that responsive a crop.

Will you only put 60 kg/ha N as a total N amount for the season? Definitely put Shield on asap, and you are getting pretty late for that even given flower buds emerging. Looks a very good crop except for the bare patches. NIAB meeting I went to they said they were very sceptical about PGRs in OSR and said they wouldn't bother because they've seen very little yield benefit. My 2p worth.

 

[Feldspar]

This one field of mine, varieties are elga and nakita.
Looks good apart from some patches of pigeon damage and where it didn’t come due to the dry weather last summer.

There’s signs of disease on lower leaves but all the new growth looks healthy. Was going to go on with trace elements as soil test show low in boron molybdenum

The question is where is there good evidence that boron and molybdenum applied as a foliar provide a positive margin over input costs? I'm not aware of any done by independent trials organisations that I would trust that show it's worthwhile. Test your agronomist and ask him / her to produce the evidence. Same question for the fungicide. Distributor trials I discount unless I know a lot about the trial.

I say this to everyone, but I would seriously recommend joining NIAB. It's *so* worthwhile even if you have an agronomist because it helps to have a discussion on a more even playing field.

As an aside, I was looking through my uncle's spray recommendations the other day. Serviced agronomist. Compared to my prices for the same chemical I was already saving quite a bit of money (10% roughly, although others will be getting much worse than this), but it's in the choice of products where I really start to gain. He is consistently getting what I call 'distributor products' -- i.e. products that are formulated in a way that makes price and value for money comparisons very difficult. They love to add in extra niche actives that are invariably bad value for money IMO. A cynic would say that this is done on purpose not for the benefit of the farmer, but to allow them to sell higher margin products at the expense of the farmer. We had enough distributor agronomists over enough farms to see that they all do this, and some agronomists are much worse than others.

As I said, as a start DO join NIAB and do read their trials results careful and ask for unbiased evidence to support recommendations. Sorry, if this sounds a bit preachy, but I have seen enough now to feel confident in my position and I just want farmers to keep a bit more of their own money, that is all.

 

[Feldspar]

I'm sick of spending money for very little if any result so other than a few trace elements and the N, thats it till desiccation.

And even then, where's the evidence that trace elements are worth doing? I get the boron argument and have done a lot of tissue tests and looked at split stems and deformed leaves. Problem with tissue tests is that they're so variable over time and the research behind what levels are likely to give a positive margin if a foliar is applied are shaky (or at least I have not seen the research enough to convince me).

We used Astrokerb for the first time this year. I'm a big fan because now there's no need for a stem extension pass for BLWs, not doing a fungicide and I certainly wouldn't go through the crop just to put boron on. But then, I don't get 6 t/ha, so I'm probably wrong...

 

[Flat 10]

I would go with boron moly and the shield if any thistles about. And N and S asap. Did you muck it in the autumn? That would account for your lower N use?

 

[jack6480]

I would go with boron moly and the shield if any thistles about. And N and S asap. Did you muck it in the autumn? That would account for your lower N use?

Fields had muck over the years but not last autumn, usually never bother with putting N on this early as it seems to just make plants big but doesn’t gain any yield or goes flat

 

[jack6480]

Assume you mean Elgar? Did you put an autumn fungicide on? If so, what? If you have, I would say don't bother with the Kestrel because both those varieties have high LLS scores and from NIAB trials an autumn application alone gives a higher margin than an autumn and spring. If you want to be rigorous, and this is a really good agronomist should do, incubate some leaves and see if the threshold has been reached. Even so, I think the threshold is out of date now given the recent work on OSR fungicide responses. It just isn't that responsive a crop.

Will you only put 60 kg/ha N as a total N amount for the season? Definitely put Shield on asap, and you are getting pretty late for that even given flower buds emerging. Looks a very good crop except for the bare patches. NIAB meeting I went to they said they were very sceptical about PGRs in OSR and said they wouldn't bother because they've seen very little yield benefit. My 2p worth.

No fungicide yet
I think agro wants to use pgrs as we’ve had flat rape in the passed but we used to put feet on early and now don’t bother.

Fields that don’t look as good as this will get more fert

 

[Feldspar]

No fungicide yet
I think agro wants to use pgrs as we’ve had flat rape in the passed but we used to put feet on early and now don’t bother.

Fields that don’t look as good as this will get more fert

I guess you have very high fertility then? Given no autumn fungicide that also complicates things. I withdraw my suggestions then in that case because your situation sounds quite different to ours.

 

[jack6480]

The question is where is there good evidence that boron and molybdenum applied as a foliar provide a positive margin over input costs? I'm not aware of any done by independent trials organisations that I would trust that show it's worthwhile. Test your agronomist and ask him / her to produce the evidence. Same question for the fungicide. Distributor trials I discount unless I know a lot about the trial.

I say this to everyone, but I would seriously recommend joining NIAB. It's *so* worthwhile even if you have an agronomist because it helps to have a discussion on a more even playing field.

As an aside, I was looking through my uncle's spray recommendations the other day. Serviced agronomist. Compared to my prices for the same chemical I was already saving quite a bit of money (10% roughly, although others will be getting much worse than this), but it's in the choice of products where I really start to gain. He is consistently getting what I call 'distributor products' -- i.e. products that are formulated in a way that makes price and value for money comparisons very difficult. They love to add in extra niche actives that are invariably bad value for money IMO. A cynic would say that this is done on purpose not for the benefit of the farmer, but to allow them to sell higher margin products at the expense of the farmer. We had enough distributor agronomists over enough farms to see that they all do this, and some agronomists are much worse than others.

As I said, as a start DO join NIAB and do read their trials results careful and ask for unbiased evidence to support recommendations. Sorry, if this sounds a bit preachy, but I have seen enough now to feel confident in my position and I just want farmers to keep a bit more of their own money, that is all.

Soil tests show this field is low in trace elements likes boron and molybdenum so my thinking was to add these to keep the rape healthy

 

[robbie]

The question is where is there good evidence that boron and molybdenum applied as a foliar provide a positive margin over input costs? I'm not aware of any done by independent trials organisations that I would trust that show it's worthwhile. Test your agronomist and ask him / her to produce the evidence. Same question for the fungicide. Distributor trials I discount unless I know a lot about the trial.

I say this to everyone, but I would seriously recommend joining NIAB. It's *so* worthwhile even if you have an agronomist because it helps to have a discussion on a more even playing field.

As an aside, I was looking through my uncle's spray recommendations the other day. Serviced agronomist. Compared to my prices for the same chemical I was already saving quite a bit of money (10% roughly, although others will be getting much worse than this), but it's in the choice of products where I really start to gain. He is consistently getting what I call 'distributor products' -- i.e. products that are formulated in a way that makes price and value for money comparisons very difficult. They love to add in extra niche actives that are invariably bad value for money IMO. A cynic would say that this is done on purpose not for the benefit of the farmer, but to allow them to sell higher margin products at the expense of the farmer. We had enough distributor agronomists over enough farms to see that they all do this, and some agronomists are much worse than others.

As I said, as a start DO join NIAB and do read their trials results careful and ask for unbiased evidence to support recommendations. Sorry, if this sounds a bit preachy, but I have seen enough now to feel confident in my position and I just want farmers to keep a bit more of their own money, that is all.

Very well put @Feldspar.
What you've said is the very reason I joined NIAB and passed BASIS. The savings are really quite astounding , now we source all Chems through the buying group and avoid pet products from distributors.

I still feel angry and annoyed mainly with myself for going along with distributer agronomy for so long before I saw the light. Initial, In the beginning it was the good folk of TFF who started to make me more aware of things.

 

[Gong Farmer]

If no N till flowering then presumably it gets no sulphur? Needs a rethink IMO.

Crop in those pics does not need Toprex. Doesn't even warrant teb as a PGR.

Tongue biting is working now, so I'll leave it there.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Get going with the weed control and get the N and S on pronto. The rest of it is open to debate.

I would probably only spray the thin patches for weeds but depends on how bad the good parts of the fields are.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I'm sick of spending money for very little if any result so other than a few trace elements and the N, thats it till desiccation.

No fungicide at all???

 

[Feldspar]

No fungicide at all???

That's quite defensible this year for some varieties IMO.