Our Trade with the Republic of Ireland

[Agrivator]

The border between the ROI and NI seems to be a major issue.

But of all the trade between the UK and the ROI,

What proportion goes by road over the border, and then into NI or onward by ferry from Larne to ports in the West of Scotland.
What proportion goes by sea from Irish ports to UK ports.
What proportion goes by air to various airports throughout the UK.

 

[gatepost]

No idea. But I think the political establishment is angling for/encouraging the possibility of Irish reunification.

 

[Cowabunga]

No idea. But I think the political establishment is angling for/encouraging the possibility of Irish reunification.

No they are not, but it may well happen rather than a hard border being built. Why would either Ireland want a hard border after experiencing the convenience of an open border? They would surely prefer to unite and keep it open rather than separate again into two isolated States with a very necessary hard border which will inevitably ignite violence once more.
I know that if I were a Northern Irish Protestant, I would prefer piece and an united Ireland rather than divergence necessitating border checks and passports and so on.

 

[gatepost]

I think we agree, and maybe I didn't put it across well enough, I think the intransigence shown by the various political sides could eventually end in a united Ireland especially when the majority in NI voted remain.

 

[chipchap]

The whole of the island of Ireland would still be part of the United Kingdom if the English had treated the Irish with the respect they deserved. It is a very long story going back to the twelfth century.

 

[The Agrarian]

No they are not, but it may well happen rather than a hard border being built. Why would either Ireland want a hard border after experiencing the convenience of an open border? They would surely prefer to unite and keep it open rather than separate again into two isolated States with a very necessary hard border which will inevitably ignite violence once more.
I know that if I were a Northern Irish Protestant, I would prefer piece and an united Ireland rather than divergence necessitating border checks and passports and so on.

I personally have no issue with a hard border. I'm in England and Scotland more times in a year than I cross the border. And neither will I or anyone else be held to ransom by the threat of violence. We've been through that hell and will go through it again if necessary. We don't give in to terror.

However I accept the convenience that those living nearer the border now enjoy, and would like it to stay that way for their sake. Camera surveillance and checks at the point of departure/arrival or goods is perfectly fine by me, and should be by any law abiding person. It's the way at any international border in the world. There might be lots of crossing points, but only a few carry most of the traffic. Heck, there's even a surveillance camera monitoring me as I go one mile over a bridge into the next county. Big deal.

 

[Bald Rick]

The whole of the island of Ireland would still be part of the United Kingdom if the English had treated the Irish with the respect they deserved. It is a very long story going back to the twelfth century.

Well dang, who would we beat at cricket then?

 

[deleted user 837354]

There ain't gonna be a hard border. Neither side want it, and the Irish, irrespective of their chosen flag aren't exactly known for their love of rules.

It's a load of codswallop dreamt up by the EU to make the brexit negotiation problematic. It does not need to be.

 

[essexpete]

No they are not, but it may well happen rather than a hard border being built. Why would either Ireland want a hard border after experiencing the convenience of an open border? They would surely prefer to unite and keep it open rather than separate again into two isolated States with a very necessary hard border which will inevitably ignite violence once more.
I know that if I were a Northern Irish Protestant, I would prefer piece and an united Ireland rather than divergence necessitating border checks and passports and so on.

Unfortunately there are a minority that will not.
Should have been unified back in 1928 or whenever but too many rich businessman may have had a sway.

 

[essexpete]

There ain't gonna be a hard border. Neither side want it, and the Irish, irrespective of their chosen flag aren't exactly known for their love of rules.

It's a load of codswallop dreamt up by the EU to make the brexit negotiation problematic. It does not need to be.

So will there be hard borders elsewhere?

 

[deleted user 837354]

So will there be hard borders elsewhere?

I doubt it. UK-Ireland trade is less than 50 billion total per year in both directions. It's a non-issue. Even if the UK was entirely to revert to WTO rules, there is no reason the UK could not continue to accept trade with Ireland. If their EU masters want to impose tariffs or whatever that is their business, there is nothing to stop the UK continuing to import things from Ireland.

Only an utter madman would try to create an issue regarding to border given the history of the place and only a complete fool would believe that any kind of line on map, much less a physical wall 40 feet high would ever work in such a situation, neither side wants it. It's that simple.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

There ain't gonna be a hard border. Neither side want it, and the Irish, irrespective of their chosen flag aren't exactly known for their love of rules.

It's a load of codswallop dreamt up by the EU to make the brexit negotiation problematic. It does not need to be.

They are using it to stop Brexit . But was not the backstop drempt up by May's remainer team

 

[Whitepeak]

UK-Ireland trade is less than 50 billion total per year in both directions.

Bet that doesn't include all the goods bought and privately taken over the border though. Brother lives in Letterkenny and regularly will take a shopping trip over to Derry due to many goods being cheaper. He'll even order stuff off Amazon, get it delivered to my parents and get them to take it when they visit as the goods/delivery are cheaper. And my parents always fill up the car with diesel before they come home due to it being 10p/l cheaper in the south. That will all stop if they have a hard border.

Same happens in all European countries; father in law travels from Switzerland to Germany to do his weekly shop!

 

[deleted user 837354]

Bet that doesn't include all the goods bought and privately taken over the border though. Brother lives in Letterkenny and regularly will take a shopping trip over to Derry due to many goods being cheaper. He'll even order stuff off Amazon, get it delivered to my parents and get them to take it when they visit as the goods/delivery are cheaper. And my parents always fill up the car with diesel before they come home due to it being 10p/l cheaper in the south. That will all stop if they have a hard border.

Same happens in all European countries; father in law travels from Switzerland to Germany to do his weekly shop!

I can well imagine, and you won't stop that even if you have the kind of border North and South Korea have. As I keep saying, neither sides wants a hard border and good luck to anyone who insists on so much as drawing a line on the map. It's a non-issue.

 

[The Agrarian]

There is a line on a map. It was drawn in 1921. It's an international border separating two Nations and territories.

 

[boumaticboy]

There is a line on a map. It was drawn in 1921. It's an international border separating two Nations and territories.

With separate education healthcare tax vat currency and other rules and regs . My produce mostly goes to Gb so a border down the sea is not the answer. Reuniting the island would make Brexit look like wee buns. In terms of protecting the integrity of the single market if you look on many shelves u find chicken from Thailand at the moment what difference is there when we are out of the eu and the south stays in?

 

[robs1]

We have average speed cameras, CCTV that can recognize faces, police cars that can tell in seconds if a car is insured taxed etc and registration recognition at car parks etc etc and yet people are meant to believe that it cant be done on the border to check what is happening, any private car going to and fro often could be checked out at its address, lorries doing the same could be sorted at the companies, the only reason it cant be done is because May's remain team and the EU didnt want it done to stop brexit

 

[Danllan]

The whole of the island of Ireland would still be part of the United Kingdom if the English had treated the Irish with the respect they deserved. It is a very long story going back to the twelfth century.

I agree, but we are where we are and the UK / ROI border is where it is. Dr Varadkar's suggestion is what it is too, a petulant shout by a frightened man. The UK is a union, nothing lasts forever, everything changes, but the UK will retain its integrity until a given constituent part chooses - by a democratic majority in a free referendum - to leave.

There is not a chance in hell that a hard Brexit will see a majority in NI vote to leave the UK; that pleases me, but even if it didn't it would still be true and Dr Varadkar needs to work on the same principal, i.e. that a fact is a fact whether or not it fits in with his preferred agenda.

In passing, the huge number of EU trucks heading through the UK for the ROI that I see as I drive along the A40, leads me to be fairly confident that said Dr Varadkar will stop whining and start pulling his finger out sooner rather than later. I may be wrong, and his concern against angering his overlords on the continent may be greater than his fear of the political consequences at home, it is hard to tell, but I don't think so.

 

[som farmer]

last minute codge up, nobody wants hard borders, so someone has to devise a face saving formula that suggests all sides have achieved what they have laid down as red lines

 

[Hooby Farmer]

There is a line on a map. It was drawn in 1921. It's an international border separating two Nations and territories.

I've often said the 9 counties that make up Ulster should be Northern Ireland. The whole thing is a mess with the hard border, tariffs, etc. No one has a clue in how to deal with it, how to implement it, how not to implement it.