Pasture for life

[Bury the Trash]

don't take my word for it, (we were thinking of joining) but I believe as long as the lamb was entirely pasture it would be fine, maybe a better authority could clarify, but I think ewes could be supplemented.

(sorry for such a vague post)

With respect to the op referring to cattle.

but talking about sheep ….

fair enough lambs being grass/forage fed only.....


but Re.. being able to feed the multiple baring ewe pre lambing with a nutrient dense ration (if short on grass or poor silage / hay having been made no roots fodder beet etc available etc

What happens when she is culled ? conventional market?

 

[Woolless]

With respect to the op referring to cattle.

but talking about sheep ….

fair enough lambs being grass/forage fed only.....


but Re.. being able to feed the multiple baring ewe pre lambing with a nutrient dense ration (if short on grass or poor silage / hay having been made no roots fodder beet etc available etc

What happens when she is culled ? conventional market?

Yes, I know what you mean. With 300 ewes this year, I'm two tonnes away from PFLA compliance (ok, plus a a tonne for ewe hoggs). Wouldn't want to be without it though, or have less mouths this year given grass growth.

 

[Cowgirl]

I can see how joining this scheme would really suit some folk. Not others though and each to their own, it's not compulsory. My biggest concern with cattle on this type of system would be spring block calving. Heifers would do very well to hit target weights for bulling at 15 months without a bit of cake over the winter and running them on empty for another year seems very inefficient. Any comments?

This has been our problem but our last year’s heifers are heavier this year than in previous years and I think, although spring calving is easier for us, we might try aiming to calve them at two and a half.
I don’t know if there’s an answer to the dairy x animal problem - to be successful I think it needs very feed efficient genetics.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is something that has interested me but on the dairy side of things, how are people rearing calf's with good DLWG without concentrates

Adapted genetics are a good start.
They need to stop being pampered for a while, see what thrives and what does not.
It's an almost impossible task with market calves, from what I understand.

I didn't want to wade on in as our context down here is completely different - a tonne of feed grain beats the average net margin on a finished beast - but if a genepool has been shaped over time to favour grain finishing then the "best" animals will be more suited to this type of diet.
Thus they are more prevalent in the gene pool.
Not the case in NZ, other than a handful of feedlots around the country (look up 5 Star Beef) almost every animal here will be 100% grass fed and finished.
It doesn't necessarily mean any extra time to finishing with the right stock in the right season, and the very same health problems can be evident when you overload them with protein nomatter what it comes from.

(We had a couple of waterbelly cattle from too much clover intake, normally only "a thing" with grainfed cattle.... dietary balance is the key, as always).
Note @holwellcourtfarm stated "diverse pastures" - this is key to not only outright performance but also a reliable feed intake across changing seasons - diversity is completely underrated in production agriculture, so a monoculture mindset needs to be abandoned unless in the softest of climates.

I think that's the real driver of these schemes, as consumers wake up to the methods that their meat protein is grown with then they have two real options: consume less meat, or seek out meats that have been grown for nutritional value as opposed to bulk.

Probably the best bet for producers is to distance themselves from the "bulk commodity beef", because that route is a road to nowhere.
The next step as per @tinsheet's OP, is capturing the extra value from growing better beef, with a more complex nutritional profile.

 

[delilah]

There was some discussion on the email Google group about possibly engaging with XR groups locally but though some people were keen others were very sceptical and said they didn’t think it wise. I can see that it might be a good thing to have them on our side but I can understand people being reticent.

Thanks. that's probably the prudent approach. I am going to do some digging to see what XR have planned for October. If they will see the benefits of protesting about 'food miles' and other environmental impacts of imported meat then all is good. However the indications to date have been that they want to target UK ag. This needs heading off at the pass, both for our benefit and theirs - they will be barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Tim W]

With respect to the op referring to cattle.

but talking about sheep ….

fair enough lambs being grass/forage fed only.....


but Re.. being able to feed the multiple baring ewe pre lambing with a nutrient dense ration (if short on grass or poor silage / hay having been made no roots fodder beet etc available etc

What happens when she is culled ? conventional market?

I managed it for 20+ years ----key is
1) Genetics
2) Budgeting grass
3) Planning lambing/weaning/finishing according to grass growth

(It's the cheapest way to do it too)-----cull her in the same way you usually would---to the best of your advantage

The pasture brand is small at the moment with no major supermarkets being on board (yet) so marketing has to be local/smaller scale
Things can change rapidly

 

[Henarar]

Not the case in NZ, other than a handful of feedlots around the country (look up 5 Star Beef) almost every animal here will be 100% grass fed and finished.

How would they do on our grid do you think ?

 

[Old Tip]

It's not draconian, it's a production and marketing option. Many native breeds take at least 28-30 months to finish of grass. You are allowed to feed fodder beet but no cereals

What about sugar beet and liquid feed
I looked into it but no way my sheep carrying twins would survive without some supplement. It’s also an excellent way of supplying palatable minerals.
I was put off by both the extra paper work and the pompous rep they sent to see us, she really wound me up

 

[Old Tip]

What sheep need 20kg of creep to get to that weight?

Most hill breeds born and reared on rocks and brazen unless you sell them for jack all in the autumn or pay a fortune for winter keep.

 

[Old Tip]

Adapted genetics are a good start.
They need to stop being pampered for a while, see what thrives and what does not.
It's an almost impossible task with market calves, from what I understand.

I didn't want to wade on in as our context down here is completely different - a tonne of feed grain beats the average net margin on a finished beast - but if a genepool has been shaped over time to favour grain finishing then the "best" animals will be more suited to this type of diet.
Thus they are more prevalent in the gene pool.
Not the case in NZ, other than a handful of feedlots around the country (look up 5 Star Beef) almost every animal here will be 100% grass fed and finished.
It doesn't necessarily mean any extra time to finishing with the right stock in the right season, and the very same health problems can be evident when you overload them with protein nomatter what it comes from.

(We had a couple of waterbelly cattle from too much clover intake, normally only "a thing" with grainfed cattle.... dietary balance is the key, as always).
Note @holwellcourtfarm stated "diverse pastures" - this is key to not only outright performance but also a reliable feed intake across changing seasons - diversity is completely underrated in production agriculture, so a monoculture mindset needs to be abandoned unless in the softest of climates.

I think that's the real driver of these schemes, as consumers wake up to the methods that their meat protein is grown with then they have two real options: consume less meat, or seek out meats that have been grown for nutritional value as opposed to bulk.

Probably the best bet for producers is to distance themselves from the "bulk commodity beef", because that route is a road to nowhere.
The next step as per @tinsheet's OP, is capturing the extra value from growing better beef, with a more complex nutritional profile.

Perfectly put, this is what I have been doing for years and it’s working well but on an upland farm we do need some supplements at certain times of year purely for animal health. Also in the uk a large proportion of animal supplements are made up of waste from the human food industry unlike the American maize/corn feedlot. I know nowadays a lot of this could and does go to bio digesters, the ruminant is doing exactly the same thing with the product, turning waste into energy.

 

[tinsheet]

T

What about sugar beet and liquid feed
I looked into it but no way my sheep carrying twins would survive without some supplement. It’s also an excellent way of supplying palatable minerals.
I was put off by both the extra paper work and the pompous rep they sent to see us, she really wound me up

This is what I intend to find out if the pro's out weight the con's!
Going to book in to a talk/farm walk end of the month!
Thanks @exmoor dave

 

[exmoor dave]

T

This is what I intend to find out if the pro's out weight the con's!
Going to book in to a talk/farm walk end of the month!
Thanks @exmoor dave

PFLA and NT indoctrination in the same visit

I think for our area, the PFLA would really need to facilitate finding homes for grass fed stores off the moor to go to grass/ herbal leys/ forage crops off the moor for finishing.

 

[Bury the Trash]

PFLA and NT indoctrination in the same visit

I think for our area, the PFLA would really need to facilitate finding homes for grass fed stores off the moor to go to grass/ herbal leys/ forage crops off the moor for finishing.

so generally speaking, theres going to be a few 2nd hand 3 in 1 feeders on the market ............

 

[tinsheet]

PFLA and NT indoctrination in the same visit

I think for our area, the PFLA would really need to facilitate finding homes for grass fed stores off the moor to go to grass/ herbal leys/ forage crops off the moor for finishing.

Perhaps I need to bring up the success rate of the badger cull in the West Somerset area, and what they (the NT) are planning to do actively regards TB, but hey that's for another thread.

 

[neilo]

With respect to the op referring to cattle.

but talking about sheep ….

fair enough lambs being grass/forage fed only.....


but Re.. being able to feed the multiple baring ewe pre lambing with a nutrient dense ration (if short on grass or poor silage / hay having been made no roots fodder beet etc available etc

What happens when she is culled ? conventional market?

In the rules on the website, grazing brassicas is permitted, even encouraged. I think I could qualify fairly easily on the feed side of it.

Animals that are intended for breeding, not for slaughter, are allowed to be fed properly, including dairy cows before they enter production. Breeding ewes are perhaps deemed to be the same, in that they don’t actually enter the food chain (apart from as culls, when I don’t suppose Jaffa cares what they have been fed).

On top of the PFLA certification & fee, you appear to need to be separately certified as satisfying welfare standards by the RSPCA or Orgasmic bodies, for example. I’m out then.

 

[CopperBeech]

Nice idea, very little commercial benefit.

We joined - they said they could maybe find a butcher to take a couple of lambs here or there.....

Ground breaking.

Until a supermarket or processor is on board it’s not much use.

 

[Hilly]

Nice idea, very little commercial benefit.

We joined - they said they could maybe find a butcher to take a couple of lambs here or there.....

Ground breaking.

Until a supermarket or processor is on board it’s not much use.

Maybe the use is to use the period of time their is no supermarket on board to learn all about it as I can see it coming to a supermarket .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Sell them here, everything is pasture for life in the land of milk and honey.
And they'll pay you half as much so straightaway there's a tax benefit @Hilly

 

[Hilly]

Sell them here, everything is pasture for life in the land of milk and honey.
And they'll pay you half as much so straightaway there's a tax benefit @Hilly

Farming in Scotland is sooooo much harder with the crap weather

 

[Kiwi Pete]

9.30am today