Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[George from SJM Planning]

Thanks for that i wonder if they have confused it with the residential PD

Most likely

 

[livinthedream]

Ok, I am going to be blunt and I hope I don't cause offence but my advice to you is not to take this on yourself. I would not take it on myself, as an individual, and I work in planning! You need to find yourself a planning consultant (I would suggest SJM Planning but we are the other end of the country) who in the very least has a degree in Town Planning, preferable is a member of the RTPI. To get this all passed in the correct order and not leave you up the creek without a paddle you need someone who has studied and practised planning policy. Even better would be to engage a rural planning consultant, they are out there but are few and far between. Don't settle for an architect or a land agent unless they can prove that they have town planning qualifications and experience in getting planning for new residential developments in the countryside.

As for proving it is PDL then this would be the basis for your/your agents pre-application advice application; you should collect all the information you can get; photographs, deeds, statements from locals who remember the house or even better former occupants. If I was your agent I would be putting in a pre-app asking to "establish the principle of erecting a new dwelling on the previously developed land on the site of [Insert former property's name]". The council will then provide a written response stating whether they believe the principle is there and that is what you base your application on. I would not state sizes or design of the proposed dwelling as you are just after the council to agree that it is PDL.

Do not at any point offer to give up your PD until the council have agreed that erection of a replacement dwelling is acceptable in principle and even then only offer to void that permission if they think you are asking for too much. If you can keep that in your back pocket until the last minute you never know you may get to hold on to both.

I strongly urge you to engage in a suitably qualified professional.

Hi , just thought i’d update you on this . I put in a pre app like you suggested , the four week determination turned into 12 weeks and there was nothing I could do about it because it was private . A long story short because the development is obviously in greenbelt, just on the outskirts of the settlement boundary and because the cottage no longer exists, there is no dwelling to replace and all remains have blended into the landscape so wouldn’t fall under brownfield land. Therefore the only way to get a building on there would be a Paragraph 55, which I definitely didnt want to go down .
However after finding out the legalisation was changing on Class Q in April we applied again and got A & B passed today!! I am over the moon

 

[livinthedream]

Just an after thought. I am hoping to move on the land asap,my house sells any day now. Will I be able to move onto the land straight away in a motorhome so that I can convert the barn myself or do I have to apply for planning again?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Hi , just thought i’d update you on this . I put in a pre app like you suggested , the four week determination turned into 12 weeks and there was nothing I could do about it because it was private . A long story short because the development is obviously in greenbelt, just on the outskirts of the settlement boundary and because the cottage no longer exists, there is no dwelling to replace and all remains have blended into the landscape so wouldn’t fall under brownfield land. Therefore the only way to get a building on there would be a Paragraph 55, which I definitely didnt want to go down .
However after finding out the legalisation was changing on Class Q in April we applied again and got A & B passed today!! I am over the moon

Congratulations

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Just an after thought. I am hoping to move on the land asap,my house sells any day now. Will I be able to move onto the land straight away in a motorhome so that I can convert the barn myself or do I have to apply for planning again?

I think you'll be ok in a motorhome or touring caravan. A static would need permission but probably wouldn't be an issue in the circumstances.

 

[livinthedream]

Thank you GeorgieB82. I really appreciated your input . I have so many questions I need to ask but I won’t exhaust my welcome here I suppose its a long steady process of finding out what you can and can’t do but there is one question I cannot find the answer anywhere online. On my approval I am allowed to build a track right up to the barn. In front of the barn is the whole curtilege where we will create a turning circle, parking/garden. The entrance is road frontage so have to put tarmac for the first 7.5m and then I suppose a none porous track. Straight up along side this track I have a right of way that runs through the fields and will run close to the house. Can I put some sort of fencing / wall along and have gates on the front now that it is residential or because its in greenbelt am I restricted to just an open fence ? I just wanted some privacy because that will be my garden as well.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thank you GeorgieB82. I really appreciated your input . I have so many questions I need to ask but I won’t exhaust my welcome here I suppose its a long steady process of finding out what you can and can’t do but there is one question I cannot find the answer anywhere online. On my approval I am allowed to build a track right up to the barn. In front of the barn is the whole curtilege where we will create a turning circle, parking/garden. The entrance is road frontage so have to put tarmac for the first 7.5m and then I suppose a none porous track. Straight up along side this track I have a right of way that runs through the fields and will run close to the house. Can I put some sort of fencing / wall along and have gates on the front now that it is residential or because its in greenbelt am I restricted to just an open fence ? I just wanted some privacy because that will be my garden as well.

Now it is residential I would imagine you could fence your boundary as any other householder would be entitled to unless it states specifically in your decision notice that you must inform the council of any boundary materials or if as part of the decision notice you have had your permitted development rights under Part 2 Class A of the GPDO removed. If in doubt, contact your case officer and just ask the question.

 

[livinthedream]

No i have had no restrictions or removals of PD rights applied but i always thought any class Q had them removed until it was completed. Is this not the case?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

No i have had no restrictions or removals of PD rights applied but i always thought any class Q had them removed until it was completed. Is this not the case?

I'll check with the boss, I don't want to send you down the wrong path now you have got this far

 

[livinthedream]

Thank you, good for others on this forum to know

 

[George from SJM Planning]

No i have had no restrictions or removals of PD rights applied but i always thought any class Q had them removed until it was completed. Is this not the case?

We have put our heads together and I think you need to speak to the case officer from your permission. We believe that you would need permission for anything other than an 'agricultural boundary' as it stands as the property has not been converted and is still agricultural so only agricultural PD rights remain. Once it is a dwelling, the agri PD rights are no longer applicable but unless your decision notice states that the subsequent dwelling would not receive the standard PD rights for dwellings then you should be able to undertake minor alterations as outlined in Shedule 2 Part 1 or the GPDO (Development within the curtilage of a dwellinghouse).

I would strongly suggest a telephone call or email to the case officer though

 

[livinthedream]

I know I said I dont want to ask you too many questions but would we be allowed to put a container on the land to store machinery/building tools/tractor while we are building for security reasons ? I dont want to really ask these questions to the case officer

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I know I said I dont want to ask you too many questions but would we be allowed to put a container on the land to store machinery/building tools/tractor while we are building for security reasons ? I dont want to really ask these questions to the case officer

I believe so, as any other builder/contractor would do something similar if away from their yard.

 

[livinthedream]

That’s what I sort of found out . It doesnt become residential until its complete and yes I will definitely ask first now I have got this far. I don’t want to upset anyone but then again I don’t want to ask for every little thing I want to do

 

[George from SJM Planning]

That’s what I sort of found out . It doesnt become residential until its complete and yes I will definitely ask first now I have got this far. I don’t want to upset anyone but then again I don’t want to ask for every little thing I want to do

The planners won't want you having to put permission in for everything as it just adds to their workload but it is best to ask for advice.

 

[livinthedream]

I believe so, as any other builder/contractor would do something similar if away from their yard.

It’s hard to get your head round it because the curtilege in some respects is still classed as agricultural until finished (PD rights) so you don’t know what you can do but on the other hand its now passed so you need to live there to work on the development and store your equipment

 

[livinthedream]

The planners won't want you having to put permission in for everything as it just adds to their workload but it is best to ask for advice.

For sure!

 

[Dreamer]

Hi,
I am building a barn using permitted development rights on a field (no house) in Scotland. I need to put up 1400m2 of fencing etc to get the land working.
Under permitted development rights it is saying I can do engineering works for agriculture.
However, would these permitted development rights extend to putting in a septic tank for use of workers on the land/barn?
Thanks

 

[Greenbeast]

Hi,
I am building a barn using permitted development rights on a field (no house) in Scotland. I need to put up 1400m2 of fencing etc to get the land working.
Under permitted development rights it is saying I can do engineering works for agriculture.
However, would these permitted development rights extend to putting in a septic tank for use of workers on the land/barn?
Thanks

Why septic tank, just use composting toilets

 

[Dreamer]

I have never actually seen or know anyone that uses a composting toilet.
I guess I am biased towards flushing.

Composting toilet would definitely be backup choice.