Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[George from SJM Planning]

Was going to have a twin span building 100ft x 100ft which is just under 1000sq m but now thinking 2 separate buildings 100ft x 50ft with 10 ft passage in between, unfortunately this would take area including passage to over 1000sqm
(the passage would just be existing surface no new hardcore or concrete)

Will the 10ft passage be concreted? If so that will require PD too so would take you over anyway.

Just a general reminder, 1000sqm includes any hardstanding created as well, not just buildings. Concrete aprons, enlarged yards etc all require PD and affects your allowance.

 

[MrNoo]

Quick question:
Grain shed extension for wet tip area + mobile drier housing. I want to put an extension of 100ftx25ft off the side of my existing 120x60 grain store, cant go any more than that as a)dont need the extra room and b) have a private tarmac driveway (my own) so limited space.
Grain store is 5.6m to eves and 6+ at the ridge and we are less that 3km from an airfield, the extension ideally needs to be either a lean to or pitched roof with one bay at the end needing to be 8.5m high to house my mobile drier. Am I going to have to apply for full PP due to proximity to airfield as local bods in the office seem to suggest that is what I need to do with it being over 3m in hight.
A chap even closer to the same airfield managed to put a shed up using PD rights and it is higher than mine but he didnt seem to know a lot about what was involved as he just put in for PD and it got through.
Just interested as wish to crack on with it.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Quick question:
Grain shed extension for wet tip area + mobile drier housing. I want to put an extension of 100ftx25ft off the side of my existing 120x60 grain store, cant go any more than that as a)dont need the extra room and b) have a private tarmac driveway (my own) so limited space.
Grain store is 5.6m to eves and 6+ at the ridge and we are less that 3km from an airfield, the extension ideally needs to be either a lean to or pitched roof with one bay at the end needing to be 8.5m high to house my mobile drier. Am I going to have to apply for full PP due to proximity to airfield as local bods in the office seem to suggest that is what I need to do with it being over 3m in hight.
A chap even closer to the same airfield managed to put a shed up using PD rights and it is higher than mine but he didnt seem to know a lot about what was involved as he just put in for PD and it got through.
Just interested as wish to crack on with it.

Is the airfield a "licenced airfield" (ie does it have its own radio frequency and emergency services)? If not it doesn't count (I believe).

 

[MrNoo]

No, it is a military airfield, all grass, no runway, they drop parachutes out of Hercs and that's it, no air traffic control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_South_Cerney

 

[onthehoof]

Will the 10ft passage be concreted? If so that will require PD too so would take you over anyway.

Just a general reminder, 1000sqm includes any hardstanding created as well, not just buildings. Concrete aprons, enlarged yards etc all require PD and affects your allowance.

Application done, narrowed down passage to 7 ft to keep it under 1000m.
Thanks for all the free advice @GeorgieB82 I’m sure others will agree it is much appreciated

 

[njatkinson1]

Hi all, i'm looking to put up a Polytunnel at some point in the next few months (hopefully before lambing starts mid march). I have looked into Permitted Development rights and it seems very complicated and lots of rules/stipulations that need to be met? I think i meet all the ones that i have read about (25m from road, less than 465m2, holding over 5ha, for agricultural purposes). I was looking to put up a polytunnel around 9m x 20m. I also read something about being a certain distance from private houses on here too but cannot find that on the goverments PD guidelines.

We are in the Lake District National Park and the planning officers are renowned for being very picky. Am i likely to have any issues with this? Any advice is welcomed. Cheers

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Application done, narrowed down passage to 7 ft to keep it under 1000m.
Thanks for all the free advice @GeorgieB82 I’m sure others will agree it is much appreciated

Free? Bill is in the post lol!

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Is the airfield a "licenced airfield" (ie does it have its own radio frequency and emergency services)? If not it doesn't count (I believe).

The GPDO definition of an aerodrome is:
“aerodrome” means an aerodrome as defined in article 255 of the Air Navigation Order 2009
(interpretation)(d) which is—

(a) licensed under that Order,
(b) a Government aerodrome,
(c) one at which the manufacture, repair or maintenance of aircraft is carried out by a person carrying on business as a manufacturer or repairer of aircraft,
(d) one used by aircraft engaged in the public transport of passengers or cargo or in aerial work, or
(e) one identified to the Civil Aviation Authority before 1st March 1986 for inclusion in theUK Aerodrome Index,
​

and, for the purposes of this definition, the terms “aerial work”, “Government aerodrome” and “public transport” have the meanings given in article 255 of that Order;

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Hi all, i'm looking to put up a Polytunnel at some point in the next few months (hopefully before lambing starts mid march). I have looked into Permitted Development rights and it seems very complicated and lots of rules/stipulations that need to be met? I think i meet all the ones that i have read about (25m from road, less than 465m2, holding over 5ha, for agricultural purposes). I was looking to put up a polytunnel around 9m x 20m. I also read something about being a certain distance from private houses on here too but cannot find that on the goverments PD guidelines.

We are in the Lake District National Park and the planning officers are renowned for being very picky. Am i likely to have any issues with this? Any advice is welcomed. Cheers

As long as you comply with Schedule 2, Part 6, Class A of the GPDO (extract attached (pre-increased allowance so read 465 as 1000!)) then Permitted Development is straight forward; just print this out and put a tick by every point if you comply. If you can't tick one then Full Planning will be your way forward.

The private houses part you are referring to is A.1 (i) which reads:

(Development is not permitted by Class A if) it would consist of, or include, the erection or construction of, or the carrying out of any works to, a building, structure or an excavation used or to be used for the accommodation of livestock or for the storage of slurry or sewage sludge where the building, structure or excavation is, or would be, within 400 metres of the curtilage of a protected building;
​

A protected building is defined as:

“protected building” means any permanent building which is normally occupied by people or would be so occupied, if it were in use for purposes for which it is designed; but does not include—

(a) a building within the agricultural unit; or
(b) a dwelling or other building on another agricultural unit which is used for or in connection with agriculture;
​

 

[njatkinson1]

Thanks for the info and attached document! Very helpful. I thought it was going to be the 400m distance that was going to cause problems but I see there is a condition that it will be used for temporary accomodation for lambing! So I think I’m good to put in notice of intent [emoji1303]

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thanks for the info and attached document! Very helpful. I thought it was going to be the 400m distance that was going to cause problems but I see there is a condition that it will be used for temporary accomodation for lambing! So I think I’m good to put in notice of intent [emoji1303]

Another happy customer lol

 

[Flatout_Flatbroke]

Thanks for all the info on this thread. Haven't read it all yet so I hope this hasn't been asked. I own around 60ac on one title. Also own a house which I live in on a separate title and a large barn which is unfortunately on a flood plane so not eligible for Q. Short story is that the existing house may need to be sold / transferred or possibly used as a holiday / permanent let to provide an income (divorce).

I have read in numerous places that if you get PD for a barn, you are allowed to 'stay' on the site in something like a static for 5 years while you build said barn. Then, if you could prove a sensible income from the farm, apply to have a permanent dwelling. I am aware that there is a lot of rubbish out there so wondered if anyone else had heard about this? I am an active farmer and make a decent living on the land, plus have a reasonable need to stay on site 24/7. I don't mind roughing it a bit and have access to electricity / water across my land.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thanks for all the info on this thread. Haven't read it all yet so I hope this hasn't been asked. I own around 60ac on one title. Also own a house which I live in on a separate title and a large barn which is unfortunately on a flood plane so not eligible for Q. Short story is that the existing house may need to be sold / transferred or possibly used as a holiday / permanent let to provide an income (divorce).

I have read in numerous places that if you get PD for a barn, you are allowed to 'stay' on the site in something like a static for 5 years while you build said barn. Then, if you could prove a sensible income from the farm, apply to have a permanent dwelling. I am aware that there is a lot of rubbish out there so wondered if anyone else had heard about this? I am an active farmer and make a decent living on the land, plus have a reasonable need to stay on site 24/7. I don't mind roughing it a bit and have access to electricity / water across my land.

If you are able to apply for a building under Agricultural PD under class A or B then it does not usually provide the right to live on site whilst it is being constructed. That right is usually only afforded if you are building a dwelling or converting a barn for example, to a dwelling.

To live on the site you would need to provide proof of both ‘functional’ and ‘financial’ need. Usually for new businesses, the approach is to apply for a temporary 3 year consent. Following this period,the expectation is that providing the need remains, and the business is financially sound, the LPA will consider an application for a permanent occupation of the site.

 

[Flatout_Flatbroke]

Thank you for your reply. I think I can provide a case for needing to be on the site for 3 years at least and the business is sound.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thank you for your reply. I think I can provide a case for needing to be on the site for 3 years at least and the business is sound.

If you need any advice or help with your application then please drop me an email at [email protected]. We have recent experience in AOC applications in multiple local authorities.

 

[Bruce Almighty]

We have a building that is now 100' long and 90' wide, 20' to eaves
It is cladded with green box profile on the North side which is also the neighbours side and the roadside (so neither can see inside)

It started as 80' X 60' on 28 day notice in 2016 and in 2018 we got 28 day notice to add an extra bay (making it 100' X 60') and a 30' lean-to against the full 100' length.

It is within 400m of neighbours houses (about 250-300m away) so we can't officially keep livestock in it.
What would we have to do to get full planning permission for the building to allow us to use it as a lambing shed ? Or house cattle in there ?
I am aware that you have to an odour risk assessment & explain it's FYM not slurry.

It is unlikely neighbours would have a problem, they are friendly & would like to see ewes & lambs. Cattle in this building could take them further away from the neighbours compared with where the existing cattle housing is.

(JFDI is not the answer I am looking for as we may want to use the building for non-ag use in future, I want to follow the correct channels to get planning permission not just permitted development)

 

[Tarw Coch]

We have a building that is now 100' long and 90' wide, 20' to eaves
It is cladded with green box profile on the North side which is also the neighbours side and the roadside (so neither can see inside)

It started as 80' X 60' on 28 day notice in 2016 and in 2018 we got 28 day notice to add an extra bay (making it 100' X 60') and a 30' lean-to against the full 100' length.

It is within 400m of neighbours houses (about 250-300m away) so we can't officially keep livestock in it.
What would we have to do to get full planning permission for the building to allow us to use it as a lambing shed ? Or house cattle in there ?
I am aware that you have to an odour risk assessment & explain it's FYM not slurry.

It is unlikely neighbours would have a problem, they are friendly & would like to see ewes & lambs. Cattle in this building could take them further away from the neighbours compared with where the existing cattle housing is.

(JFDI is not the answer I am looking for as we may want to use the building for non-ag use in future, I want to follow the correct channels to get planning permission not just permitted development)

No doubt someone will be along with more knowledgable advice but I think you’re ok for temporary use for livestock.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

No doubt someone will be along with more knowledgable advice but I think you’re ok for temporary use for livestock.

I'll check with the boss in the morning

 

[George from SJM Planning]

No doubt someone will be along with more knowledgable advice but I think you’re ok for temporary use for livestock.

I'll check with the boss in the morning

Ok, so assuming the building was constructed under Part 6 Class A of the GPDO 2015 (Revised 2018) then you can use the building for the housing of livesock under the following conditions:

(a) that no other suitable building or structure, 400 metres or more from the curtilage of a protected building, is available to accommodate the livestock; and

(b)

(i) that the need to accommodate the livestock arises from quarantine requirements, or an emergency due to another building or structure in which the livestock could otherwise be accommodated being unavailable because it has been damaged or destroyed by fire, flood or storm; or

(ii) in the case of animals normally kept out of doors, they require temporary accommodation in a building or other structure because they are sick or giving birth or newly born, or to provide shelter against extreme weather conditions.
​

So using the building for lambing wouldn't be a problem if there was no other building on the holding that did comply with the 400m rule and was suitable.

If it was intended to be a cattle shed for overwintering though I would see an arguement that it did not match these criteria and would need a change of use full planning application and all the complications that arrise from that.

 

[ploughman1963]

Ok, so assuming the building was constructed under Part 6 Class A of the GPDO 2015 (Revised 2018) then you can use the building for the housing of livesock under the following conditions:

(a) that no other suitable building or structure, 400 metres or more from the curtilage of a protected building, is available to accommodate the livestock; and

(b)

(i) that the need to accommodate the livestock arises from quarantine requirements, or an emergency due to another building or structure in which the livestock could otherwise be accommodated being unavailable because it has been damaged or destroyed by fire, flood or storm; or

(ii) in the case of animals normally kept out of doors, they require temporary accommodation in a building or other structure because they are sick or giving birth or newly born, or to provide shelter against extreme weather conditions.
​

So using the building for lambing wouldn't be a problem if there was no other building on the holding that did comply with the 400m rule and was suitable.

If it was intended to be a cattle shed for overwintering though I would see an arguement that it did not match these criteria and would need a change of use full planning application and all the complications that arrise from that.

Would a shed that had received full planning permission for use as general purpose and livestock be fine for housing any class of livestock - not necessarily the livestock mentioned in the intended use when the planning was applied for?