Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[George from SJM Planning]

Hi Georgie
Four years ago we successfully applied for the conversion of two barns to residential, we then went back and successfully applied for full planning on these barns to give us the opportunity to add more openings and take longer to complete the works. My question is have we still lost our PD rights for 10yrs? Thanks

No, you did not enact the Class Q permission so your PD rights haven't been removed as part of that application.
HOWEVER, they may have been removed by condition of the full planning application so check your decision notice. If you are unsure then PM me your Decision Notice or your application number and your local authority and I'll check for you.

 

[fiddler]

The NPPF is the overarching planning document and should always be the correct guidance at times when local policy contradicts it.

Thanks Georgie

 

[Bootneck]

Hi, I have an old ( not ancient, probably from the 50’s) wooden barn, currently used for machinery storage / workshop. It is away from the farmyard, away from other houses, good access to a road, would make a great location for a holiday let or house. But the barn is in a pretty terrible state, I don’t think it would be convertible, would need knocking down and rebuilding something in its place. It is also small, about 12 x 9 m.
So 2 questions really, is there any chance of getting planning for something,(maybe a log cabin, don’t know yet), and if so does the replacement building have to be the same size or can it be bigger, and how about roof height. Thanks for any answers.

 

[AlfM]

I would leave it blank rather than confuse matters; they will see your planning application on their file anyway.

Thanks. Once you’ve got PD for a building how long do you have to finish it? This shed could well end up 200 ft long like an existing one, but short term it’ll be half that due to £. If I get PD for 200 ft, but only put up 100 ft this year how long would the pp be valid for to finish the shed?

 

[Forever Fendt]

Thanks. Once you’ve got PD for a building how long do you have to finish it? This shed could well end up 200 ft long like an existing one, but short term it’ll be half that due to £. If I get PD for 200 ft, but only put up 100 ft this year how long would the pp be valid for to finish the shed?

3 years

 

[AlfM]

3 years

Is that not to start it (substantially, which 50% done would be)?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Is that not to start it (substantially, which 50% done would be)?

It must be completed within 5 years.

 

[njatkinson1]

So just a bit of an update.. I put in Notice of Intent for PD to erect a 30ft x 72ft polytunnel. Planning officer came out 2 days after application had been received, took some photos and buggered off again. After 3 weeks I phoned for an update and the planner stated he had some concerns (mainly that it was visible from the road) however it met all the requirements for PD. I made sure I told him this and that I was happy to put a green sheet on to make it less visible etc, anyways he said he would make a note of this and speak with colleagues. On Monday I received a letter from the Lake District National Park Planners stating that Prior Approval is needed and a site notice will have to be visible for 3 weeks and I should have a decision by 26th of March.

Pretty annoyed as i had hoped to have it built ready for lambing this year..

The thing that annoyed me the most was that there was nothing in the letter to say why it could not be erected under PD.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

So just a bit of an update.. I put in Notice of Intent for PD to erect a 30ft x 72ft polytunnel. Planning officer came out 2 days after application had been received, took some photos and buggered off again. After 3 weeks I phoned for an update and the planner stated he had some concerns (mainly that it was visible from the road) however it met all the requirements for PD. I made sure I told him this and that I was happy to put a green sheet on to make it less visible etc, anyways he said he would make a note of this and speak with colleagues. On Monday I received a letter from the Lake District National Park Planners stating that Prior Approval is needed and a site notice will have to be visible for 3 weeks and I should have a decision by 26th of March.

Pretty annoyed as i had hoped to have it built ready for lambing this year..

The thing that annoyed me the most was that there was nothing in the letter to say why it could not be erected under PD.

The Prior Approval process allows the Local Authority to exercise its right to control the appearance of the building. This is particularly prevalent in National Parks and AONBs, so whilst I am not surprised they have taken this approach (Where it appears they are happy with the principle but wish to ensure the appearance is acceptable) the timings are not ideal. It is, however, their right to do so.

I have attached the technical guidance which states that Local Authorities can only concern themselves with;

Siting, design and appearance

E24 Local planning authorities may concern themselves with:


the siting, design and external appearance of a proposed new agricultural or forestry building and its relationship to its surroundings;


the siting and means of construction of roads;


the siting of those excavations or waste deposits which individually or collectively exceed 0.5 hectare within the unit; and


the siting and appearance of fish tanks (cages).​

They have accepted the principle, but in this case, given the siting within the National Park, they have exercised their right to control the other details. The ‘add-on’ prior approval stage is the only mechanism they have to determine this aspect, hence the elongation to the process.

 

[njatkinson1]

The Prior Approval process allows the Local Authority to exercise its right to control the appearance of the building. This is particularly prevalent in National Parks and AONBs, so whilst I am not surprised they have taken this approach (Where it appears they are happy with the principle but wish to ensure the appearance is acceptable) the timings are not ideal. It is, however, their right to do so.

I have attached the technical guidance which states that Local Authorities can only concern themselves with;

Siting, design and appearance

E24 Local planning authorities may concern themselves with:


the siting, design and external appearance of a proposed new agricultural or forestry building and its relationship to its surroundings;


the siting and means of construction of roads;


the siting of those excavations or waste deposits which individually or collectively exceed 0.5 hectare within the unit; and


the siting and appearance of fish tanks (cages).​

They have accepted the principle, but in this case, given the siting within the National Park, they have exercised their right to control the other details. The ‘add-on’ prior approval stage is the only mechanism they have to determine this aspect, hence the elongation to the process.

Thank you for taking your time to clarify this.. if only the LDNP could’ve done the same. I wouldn’t have been quite as annoyed then. Probably should have expected this though to be honest..

What can I expect them to come back with other than asking me to use green sheeting instead of white?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thank you for taking your time to clarify this.. if only the LDNP could’ve done the same. I wouldn’t have been quite as annoyed then. Probably should have expected this though to be honest..

What can I expect them to come back with other than asking me to use green sheeting instead of white?

They may ask for a native hedgerow to be planted to shield the polytunnel but really a polytunnel is a polytunnel and there are only a few options open to them to mitigate its visual impact

 

[Mattscimmy]

New to this.
Just trying to fill in a full planning permission online. This is for an extension to a three span cattle shed. The shed as it stands is approx 456m2 and had full planning permission in approx 1982. I would like to extend all three spans by 6m to make a scrapeable feed passage. As this is housing cattle I understand it should have full planning consent, so while I'm making the application I was going to apply for a further 40ft span for straw storage. This brings the total area to 1050m2.
My question for now relates to the fee, which the online calculator gives as £3696. I nearly fell off my chair! Is this correct, is there a cheaper way to do it?
Or do I tell them I'm just parking machinery in that bit and go PD

 

[George from SJM Planning]

New to this.
Just trying to fill in a full planning permission online. This is for an extension to a three span cattle shed. The shed as it stands is approx 456m2 and had full planning permission in approx 1982. I would like to extend all three spans by 6m to make a scrapeable feed passage. As this is housing cattle I understand it should have full planning consent, so while I'm making the application I was going to apply for a further 40ft span for straw storage. This brings the total area to 1050m2.
My question for now relates to the fee, which the online calculator gives as £3696. I nearly fell off my chair! Is this correct, is there a cheaper way to do it?
Or do I tell them I'm just parking machinery in that bit and go PD

This is the scale of fees for agricultural planning applications:

So on my calculations based on your figures your fee should be £924.

 

[Forever Fendt]

This is the scale of fees for agricultural planning applications:

So on my calculations based on your figures your fee should be £924.

We have just paid £18,800 planning fee and we need a CMRA and a FRA on top maybe another £2k and the pre app advice came after 13 weeks by then we got feed up of waiting so submitted it

 

[Mattscimmy]

£18,800 ! I'm intending to do the whole build for that.

GeorgieB82
Thankyou for your help.
Another question regards floor area.
When calculating this for an extension of an existing building the planning portal refers to "gross area" does this in fact mean new area and not the total area of the original building plus the extension.
If this is the case could I apply for full planning on the feed passage (180m2) and separately apply for PD for a straw store (312m2) then paying £96 for each application.

Also I read somewhere about not being able to extend a building by more than 10% without full planning.
From what I have read on this forum you can add a building within the allowable PD dimensions every 2 years ad infinitum or do these have to be separate free standing buildings.

 

[Forever Fendt]

New to this.
Just trying to fill in a full planning permission online. This is for an extension to a three span cattle shed. The shed as it stands is approx 456m2 and had full planning permission in approx 1982. I would like to extend all three spans by 6m to make a scrapeable feed passage. As this is housing cattle I understand it should have full planning consent, so while I'm making the application I was going to apply for a further 40ft span for straw storage. This brings the total area to 1050m2.
My question for now relates to the fee, which the online calculator gives as £3696. I nearly fell off my chair! Is this correct, is there a cheaper way to do it?
Or do I tell them I'm just parking machinery in that bit and go PD

Only slightly relevant but how close is the nearest house to the proposed extension of your shed, Dont include your farm house or any other farm houses in your calculation

 

[Mattscimmy]

About 75m

 

[Ormond]

I've permitted development approval for a rear 8m single story to the rear of my property. It's not going to be completed by the end of may when the deadline is what's my options.thanks

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I've permitted development approval for a rear 8m single story to the rear of my property. It's not going to be completed by the end of may when the deadline is what's my options.thanks

Sorry, I missed this until @Ormond PM'd me, to whihc I have responded. But basically a residential extension doesn't need Prior Approval so a Lawful Development Certificate can be applied for after the development has been completed.

 

[anto776776]

Hi can any help I have two acres and wish to build a barn nothing to big do I need planning permission. there are no buildings on the land and its in Carmarthen