Ravens and eagles. Is this really what the public want?

[Dry Rot]

A bit shocked to see this on Facebook first and not on here. A well presented professionally produced video showing what effects the total protection of a predatory species has on farmed livestock.

If there is any one thing that makes me really really angry it is blatant stupidity. I have had a keen interest in birds of prey all my life but this is ridiculous. Sod the law, if those were my sheep, I'd have the rifle out. There is legal responsibility and there is moral responsibility. Bad laws need to be challenged and down through the ages people have suffered for what they believe in even though it is against the law. I don't have sheep but if I did, and had ravens too, they'd know where to find me! I am absolutely fuming!

 

[Dave6170]

Public dont have a clue, they believe everything that packham says!
I see the general licenses are changing in scotland too. No shooting ravens under license, no black backed gulls or jackdaws. Is that right?

 

[Campani]

It is what the public wants. The RSPB has more than a million members. I bet if you did a poll the majority of the British public want to have a countryside full of wildlife, which includes predators.

Unfortunately, they also want cheap food. How we square this circle I don't know.

 

[britt]

I bet they don't put that on Spring watch or any other BBC program.

 

[Nithsdale]

That video has been on here before. I remember it from one the the threads Fallowfield was involved in...

Unfortunately, they also want cheap food. How we square this circle I don't know.

Does it really need spelled out?

 

[Cowcalf]

I would just get on and deal with problem and say absolutely nothing, how can they prosecute folk that fail to look after animals and tolerate raptors tearing them to bits

 

[DaveGrohl]

It is what the public wants. The RSPB has more than a million members. I bet if you did a poll the majority of the British public want to have a countryside full of wildlife, which includes predators.

Unfortunately, they also want cheap food. How we square this circle I don't know.

I'm not sure the majority of the public would be happy with that of they were shown that video. Trouble is it's not the majority that makes all the noise. 1 million members of the RSPB? What about the 10s of millions who aren't but would like a say in this lunacy?

 

[Nithsdale]

I would just get on and deal with problem and say absolutely nothing, how can they prosecute folk that fail to look after animals and tolerate raptors tearing them to bits

As a local shooting estate found out...


Theres always someone watching (video recorder/phone in hand) willing to take them to court

 

[Dry Rot]

That video has been on here before. I remember it from one the the threads Fallowfield was involved in...



Does it really need spelled out?

Unfortunately, yes.

 

[Dry Rot]

I've had a discussion on here before about sticking to the law. Apparently, the courts take a lenient view of the father rushing his sick daughter to hospital and breaking the 30mph speed limit. Why is this not in the same category? A keeper of livestock has a first duty to his stock and I cannot think of any moral argument that says he has to stand by and watch cruelty. Even more indefensible that he should get a criminal record for intervening.

That apart, I am not sure that there is nothing to be done. As some here will know, I have been a keen falconer all my life. I also keep rare breed poultry on free range. I changed over to a tethering system for my hawks and inevitably some hens got killed. I read in an old book how they had this problem back in the 16th century. Hawks would go astray and kill domestic poultry. Their cure was to sneak up while the hawk was eating and sprinkle pepper on the meat. I tried it with my birds. A hawk killed a chicken while on the tether. I sprinkled pepper on the meat. The hawk no longer killed my hens as it was convinced they were unfit to eat! I am not saying that this would work with ravens/eagles and lambs but it is legal and pretty cheap. Maybe someone could try it and report back?

Unfortunately, there is a precedent to this. They tried tipping sheep meat baits laced with lithium chloride out of a helicopter in Canada to persuade coyotes to stop killing sheep. Lithium chloride is the tasteless, odourless, antabuse drug used to wean alcoholics off drink. It is initially undetectable but later causes violent nausea. It worked and there was a dramatic drop in sheep predation. Unfortunately, the coyotes then worked out that it was only mutton in the dead state that was unpalatable -- and the killing started again. But we don't know if birds would be sufficiently intelligent to arrive at the same conclusions as the coyotes because no one has tried out the idea.

 

[deleted user 837354]

The public are just going to love finding dead lambs all over the shop eaten by birds on their family walks out.

That video needs to make its way on to facebook immediately.

 

[Christoph1945]

A bit shocked to see this on Facebook first and not on here. A well presented professionally produced video showing what effects the total protection of a predatory species has on farmed livestock.

If there is any one thing that makes me really really angry it is blatant stupidity. I have had a keen interest in birds of prey all my life but this is ridiculous. Sod the law, if those were my sheep, I'd have the rifle out. There is legal responsibility and there is moral responsibility. Bad laws need to be challenged and down through the ages people have suffered for what they believe in even though it is against the law. I don't have sheep but if I did, and had ravens too, they'd know where to find me! I am absolutely fuming!

A superb bit of film making, to cover a growing and intolerable farming problem. As I understand it, you are allowed to shoot any loose dogs that a worrying livestock; correct? Surely the same principles can and must apply to corvids. Or am I, a farm ignorant townie, missing something?

I believe that dogs must be shot whilst 'actually in the act' of worrying stock but could this principle be applied to corvids, at least until the law is ammended?

I do feel for the fate of the young lambs but even more so for the farmers that have their hands tied by the ignorance of some who have learned that he/she who shouts loudest is often the one who gets his/her own way.

 

[Nithsdale]

Unfortunately, yes.

We aren't here to produce food any more... those more clever than us want to import all the cheap food

 

[Mickeydredd]

I'm not sure the majority of the public would be happy with that of they were shown that video. Trouble is it's not the majority that makes all the noise. 1 million members of the RSPB? What about the 10s of millions who aren't but would like a say in this lunacy?

Particularly graphic footage of corvids ripping holes in adult sheep and eating the eyes and tongues off live lambs presented in all media formats would I think help greatly to capture the support of the non-birdy folk, but none of these media formats would allow it to be shown so you never get the message out.

 

[digger64]

aren't It is what the public wants. The RSPB has more than a million members. I bet if you did a poll the majority of the British public want to have a countryside full of wildlife, which includes predators.

Unfortunately, they also want cheap food. How we square this circle I don't know.

I think you wrong are on the basis of the public arent informed enough of the facts to make a creditable decision , some individuals and organisations hijack and cultivate this situation including the media and politicians , best example of this is brexit shows how out of touch some the "top" are with what the public actually thought .
? Do you think farmers should plant trees ?-yes
? Do you think farmers should be given your taxes to plant trees and make food more expensive as a consequence ?- F.O.

 

[Christoph1945]

Aaaaah! The scientists, chemists, and industrialists (backed by the banks and the stock-market) are racing to be able to produce synthetic meat, milk, and other foodstuffs in factories, at minimal costs and with little or no labour. Welcome to a brave new world.

 

[Av Gorritt]

A superb bit of film making, to cover a growing and intolerable farming problem. As I understand it, you are allowed to shoot any loose dogs that a worrying livestock; correct? Surely the same principles can and must apply to corvids. Or am I, a farm ignorant townie, missing something?

I believe that dogs must be shot whilst 'actually in the act' of worrying stock but could this principle be applied to corvids, at least until the law is ammended?

I do feel for the fate of the young lambs but even more so for the farmers that have their hands tied by the ignorance of some who have learned that he/she who shouts loudest is often the one who gets his/her own way.

As in the well known saying "It's the squeaking hinge that gets the oil !"

 

[Bald Rick]

Watching that video, I was set to wondering why they don't lamb indoors and turn out after 48 hours if predators (and one cannot deny that they were predating) are becoming such an issue? Losing 200 lambs with a finished worth of £12k or so would be a relatively fast payback

 

[Nithsdale]

Watching that video, I was set to wondering why they don't lamb indoors and turn out after 48 hours if predators (and one cannot deny that they were predating) are becoming such an issue? Losing 200 lambs with a finished worth of £12k or so would be a relatively fast payback

Most sheep farms don't have many sheds for housing ewes at lambing...
Banks won't give a sheep farmer much of a loan, compared to Dairy (we do not have a guaranteed, regular monthly income to secure a loan). There's not enough money in the job and Landlords won't help tenants.

It's a hell of an outlay to consider compared to a sensible govt. approach on controlling a problem (vermin) species. Especially at a time where the industry comes under attack for not being green enough (sheep are the greenest of all farm animals!) and pushing towards 'factory farming'.



It is interference from people with an unmovable opinion, but no 'on the ground' experience which is causing the current problems.

 

[Dry Rot]

Most sheep farms don't have many sheds for housing ewes at lambing...
Banks won't give a sheep farmer much of a loan, compared to Dairy (we do not have a guaranteed, regular monthly income to secure a loan). There's not enough money in the job and Landlords won't help tenants.

It's a hell of an outlay to consider compared to a sensible govt. approach on controlling a problem (vermin) species. Especially at a time where the industry comes under attack for not being green enough (sheep are the greenest of all farm animals!) and pushing towards 'factory farming'.



It is interference from people with an unmovable opinion, but no 'on the ground' experience which is causing the current problems.

Getting that video under their noses would be a step in the right direction. I "shared" it this morning on FB. No comments but I suspect that's because most will be too shocked.