Renewing ancient permanent pasture

[Blindside06]

Hello all looking for some advice, topic probably been covered several times... so apologies for that.

I have acquired some very old permanent pasture. Looking for advice on how and when to revitalise this ground ideally into a new ley, woild want to get started as soon as possible. What would you guys recommend to do with it?

Thanks in advance

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Perfect time of year for it!
1) Soil test, ensure pH is right before doing anything else
2) lime if needed
3) burn off
4) break crop of some sort of brassica, an old PP is likely too be riddled with leather jackets. So you could DD or go for full cultivation. TBH when working on really old ley I prefer too turn it in. But that's my preference.
5) graze off
6) crack on with light cultivation and a spring reseed perfect for grazing/cutting next summer

 

[Derrick Hughes]

If its not got a fair bit of Ryegrass in it you can't plough or reseed ,

 

[John Chance]

Lime definately. Electrify the boundary and divide into 8 for grazing with temp electric. Rotate the stock around. Will increase production and utilisation and change the species composition over time

 

[Agrivator]

Soil test, and lime and phosphate as recommended.

Apply 60 units/acre of N in early March, and graze at a reasonably high stocking rate.

It may be that there is no need to reseed. If it is suitable for hay or haylage, there is ample evidence that a good old sward will:

1. Produce more bales/acre than a young-grass sward, and

2. The grass wilts far quicker than a young sward, particularly a young sward containing tetraploid ryegrasses.

Why have we become accustomed to going to the expense of routine reseeding.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Soil test, and lime and phosphate as recommended.

Apply 60 units/acre of N in early March, and graze at a reasonably high stocking rate.

It may be that there is no need to reseed. If it is suitable for hay or haylage, there is ample evidence that a good old sward will:

1. Produce more bales/acre than a young-grass sward, and

2. The grass wilts far quicker than a young sward, particularly a young sward containing tetraploid ryegrasses.

Why have we become accustomed to going to the expense of routine reseeding.

Same reason we not all driving around in Morris Minors I suppose
Some spend over £100/acre on firtilzer , cost you about that for a reseed that in some cases could double production , and feed value of the resulting fodder could go up enormously, [emoji2]

 

[organicguy]

Don't do it.
Just think carefully about the long term prospects.
Neighbouring 400 acre farm spent fortune on ditching, spraying and reseeding. Been selling hay for 5 years, loosing money, so now all going into stewardship. FFS they have lost all the good stuff they had, was a unique unsprayed, or fertilised farm.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Don't do it.
Just think carefully about the long term prospects.
Neighbouring 400 acre farm spent fortune on ditching, spraying and reseeding. Been selling hay for 5 years, loosing money, so now all going into stewardship. FFS they have lost all the good stuff they had, was a unique unsprayed, or fertilised farm.

They broke the rules doing it by the sounds of it as well
Unique Unsprayed Unfitilized farm !
As farmers we have to behave in a professional manner and seen to be doing so .
There are rules we have to follow when old permanent pasture is involved, like it or not
Coming on here and saying go rob a bank you won't get cought dont realy cut it does it [emoji2]

 

[Sid]

If its not got a fair bit of Ryegrass in it you can't plough or reseed ,

So my pure stand of Timothy,lucerne,redclover can't be ploughed?

Changing uncultivated, semi-natural and rural land: when you need permission

Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) (Agriculture) Regulations protect uncultivated, semi-natural and rural land. Find out when and how to get permission to make changes to land.

www.gov.uk

Guidance is here

 

[Derrick Hughes]

So my pure stand of Timothy,lucerne,redclover can't be ploughed?

Changing uncultivated, semi-natural and rural land: when you need permission

Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) (Agriculture) Regulations protect uncultivated, semi-natural and rural land. Find out when and how to get permission to make changes to land.

www.gov.uk

Guidance is here

Good question . The officer looked at mine and said it was mostly Ryegrass . I suppose its the % of old grasses and stuff they look for
But yours is not classed as permanent pasture either . You won't find much Lucerne growing in old pasture

 

[neilo]

Soil test, and lime and phosphate as recommended.

Apply 60 units/acre of N in early March, and graze at a reasonably high stocking rate.

It may be that there is no need to reseed. If it is suitable for hay or haylage, there is ample evidence that a good old sward will:

1. Produce more bales/acre than a young-grass sward, and

2. The grass wilts far quicker than a young sward, particularly a young sward containing tetraploid ryegrasses.

Why have we become accustomed to going to the expense of routine reseeding.

Hush your mouth. You'll never become a super seed salesman talking like that.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Hush your mouth. You'll never become a super seed salesman talking like that.

But he could become a super salesman at selling weedy old meadow hay [emoji38]

 

[neilo]

But he could become a super salesman at selling weedy old meadow hay [emoji38]

I always start a new battle on weeds every time I reseed, from what was permanent pasture that had been cleaned up nicely, just from stirring weed seeds up. Getting the fundamentals of pH and fertility right, and rotationally grazing, can transform the composition and production of many old pastures, for far less than the cost of reseeding.

Nothing beats new reseeds for sheep performance though, but it does come at a significant cost.

 

[som farmer]

So my pure stand of Timothy,lucerne,redclover can't be ploughed?

Changing uncultivated, semi-natural and rural land: when you need permission

Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) (Agriculture) Regulations protect uncultivated, semi-natural and rural land. Find out when and how to get permission to make changes to land.

www.gov.uk

Guidance is here

how do you get on with that mix ? Looks interesting.

two words to describe hay meadows, herbage, and weedage, dependent on which view you take !

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I always start a new battle on weeds every time I reseed, from what was permanent pasture that had been cleaned up nicely, just from stirring weed seeds up. Getting the fundamentals of pH and fertility right, and rotationally grazing, can transform the composition and production of many old pastures, for far less than the cost of reseeding.

Nothing beats new reseeds for sheep performance though, but it does come at a significant cost.

I'm surprised how many little weeds are showing on my direct drilled field . Not sure what they are yet

 

[serf]

Has any one been fined or told to put the weeds and rubbish back after resending without permission?

 

[farmerm]

Be sure to check the rules on perm pasture, you might need environmental impact assessments and the like.. You might need to dig though the records to find evidence it has had fertiliser applied in the last 15 years...

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Has any one been fined or told to put the weeds and rubbish back after resending without permission?

Yes I know someone , had his SFP stopped. The field has now reverted to a bog like look
Its not clear if you need permission though . I'm going to double check today , but I'm pretty sure yiu can do a self assessment by looking at the pasture , the permission comes if its outside the guidelines. But dont quote me on that

 

[farmerm]

Yes I know someone , had his SFP stopped. The field has now reverted to a bog like look
Its not clear if you need permission though . I'm going to double check today , but I'm pretty sure yiu can do a self assessment by looking at the pasture , the permission comes if its outside the guidelines. But dont quote me on that

It is the case that if you can show the field has had fertiliser applied in the last 15 years you can crack on?

 

[serf]

Clear as mud as usual with this stuff, and they wonder why people don't follow the rules! Because not got a clue what meant to be doing, so just carry on regardless instead.