Sawmill

[Jsmith2211]

My sawbench has a plate blade rather than tungsten inserts, doesn't give fine dust on any wood. Cutting with the grain and it gives fairly long shreds

I have two blades which are used alternatively with one always at the professional sharpeners. Costs about 20 quid a time but worth the costs and lasts about 6 months on my usage. Unlike my TCT blade which I have never as yet needed to sharpen.

teeth want to be razor sharp.
Get EPS to doctor that blade, and ensure subsequent logs being cut are squeaky clean. the least grit/soil will take the edge off.
We peel pretty much everything.

We always sharpen the tips with a flat file before using the saw and if we notice it is having trouble cutting. There are sometimes scorch marks on the wood from where it is rubbing. there are no dogs on our saw so the log can sometimes be pushed away from the saw blade, it does have a fence which we do use. sometimes the logs are pushed away from the saw blade when sawing, usually with smaller sticks for weatherboard etc. There look to be some holes to put a bolt and a block of wood or similar to hold the log from being pushed back, but they are just empty holes. The saw has always made fine dust, i can never remember it any different. It looks like the frame of the saw is very close to the blade, potentially rubbing, and the blade does not spin with no resistance (with the belt off of course). There is always a decent bit of drag on the blade even with no wood near the saw, to the point where my 135 slows a little when starting her up. (not much but it is noticable, like starting up the topper in heavy grass) once it is going it speeds up fine, its just that initial start. I did run the saw without anything cutting (when i recorded that video) but the blade did not heat, so the rubbing cannot be sufficient to cause heat. I think the blade is rubbing against the wood because it has lost tension somehow, but i dont know enough about these saws (and neither does my father, who owns the saw) to know if that would cause the fine sawdust.

Thanks

 

[Hawkes]

Sawdust size is dependant on a few things, the speed you are feeding the wood through being one. Speed of the blade is another. From memory you need about 8000ft/min for tip speed for an old insert tooth saw, so you can work that out from your pto speed, pulley diameters and saw diameter. Roughly a 4ft 6" diameter saw needs to be running at 560 rpm.
If you are having trouble with the blade i expect you are winding the timber through very slowly so the teeth are taking only a little bit each time, small dust is the result. The angle you are sharpening the teeth will also affect it, with insert teeth it is easy to gradually lose the correct angle as you sharpen them back, you need to check against a new tooth and see if you are maintaining the angle.
These pages are from an old book the Disston handbook explaining a bit about tension etc.
The importance of tension is set out below.

It is part science and part witchcraft.....

 

[egbert]

I wouldn't begin to try it, beyond the first touch of a sharpening or two.
waaaaay too much to go wrong, and when such things go wrong, they can do so in an expansive manner.

 

[diggerjones]

Amazing reading. I would imagine the men who carried out these ajustments were reguarded as heros.

 

[Hawkes]

Amazing reading. I would imagine the men who carried out these ajustments were reguarded as heros.

The saw doctor is traditionally the best paid man in a mill for sure. They can make a mill run profitably or not! We had a few over the years and some could be prima donnas, all were protective of their skill and tried to make it as mysterious as possible. The saw doctor was always considered the top man .

 

[startinghandle]

I find sharpening saw blade and sharpening chainsaw similar... easy side and awkward side always do awkward side first , gentle strokes with file and keep same angle

 

[diggerjones]

The saw doctor is traditionally the best paid man in a mill for sure. They can make a mill run profitably or not! We had a few over the years and some could be prima donnas, all were protective of their skill and tried to make it as mysterious as possible. The saw doctor was always considered the top man .

What were they called in Victorian times and before. I wouldnt of thought saw doctor

 

[startinghandle]

Sawdust size is dependant on a few things, the speed you are feeding the wood through being one. Speed of the blade is another. From memory you need about 8000ft/min for tip speed for an old insert tooth saw, so you can work that out from your pto speed, pulley diameters and saw diameter. Roughly a 4ft 6" diameter saw needs to be running at 560 rpm.
If you are having trouble with the blade i expect you are winding the timber through very slowly so the teeth are taking only a little bit each time, small dust is the result. The angle you are sharpening the teeth will also affect it, with insert teeth it is easy to gradually lose the correct angle as you sharpen them back, you need to check against a new tooth and see if you are maintaining the angle.
These pages are from an old book the Disston handbook explaining a bit about tension etc.
The importance of tension is set out below.View attachment 902075View attachment 902066View attachment 902067View attachment 902068View attachment 902069View attachment 902070View attachment 902071View attachment 902072View attachment 902073View attachment 902074View attachment 902075

It is part science and part witchcraft.....

Obviously before H+S inspections
Probably more accidents then
Would a repaired blade be allowed now

 

[Hawkes]

What were they called in Victorian times and before. I wouldnt of thought saw doctor

I think they were called Filers in the old days, I have a few early American timber books and it talks about filers in them.

 

[Hawkes]

Obviously before H+S inspections
Probably more accidents then
Would a repaired blade be allowed now

You are still allowed to repair blades if done correctly. Wide bandsaw blades are scanned for cracks at every service, we used to tig weld and anneal to repair. If you heard tick tick tick when a saw was running it usually meant a crack. When I first started we used to stamp a short crack with a curved punch to delay it spreading but then we just repaired every crack once we got the gear to do it in house. Never had one break after that.
Big circulars I doubt anyone in UK would repair, they are still in use much more in the states and I am sure there they would be repaired there. Not sure any companies would be keen here. Easier just to say " sorry mate it's scrap".

 

[renewablejohn]

You are still allowed to repair blades if done correctly. Wide bandsaw blades are scanned for cracks at every service, we used to tig weld and anneal to repair. If you heard tick tick tick when a saw was running it usually meant a crack. When I first started we used to stamp a short crack with a curved punch to delay it spreading but then we just repaired every crack once we got the gear to do it in house. Never had one break after that.
Big circulars I doubt anyone in UK would repair, they are still in use much more in the states and I am sure there they would be repaired there. Not sure any companies would be keen here. Easier just to say " sorry mate it's scrap".

These are the guys I use andwould trust them with any repairs.

Lancashire Saw Company

Are you looking to buy industrial knives and blades? Lancashire Saw Company offers granulator and tungsten knives and saw lubrication at affordable prices.

www.lancashiresaw.co.uk

 

[Jsmith2211]

You are still allowed to repair blades if done correctly. Wide bandsaw blades are scanned for cracks at every service, we used to tig weld and anneal to repair. If you heard tick tick tick when a saw was running it usually meant a crack. When I first started we used to stamp a short crack with a curved punch to delay it spreading but then we just repaired every crack once we got the gear to do it in house. Never had one break after that.
Big circulars I doubt anyone in UK would repair, they are still in use much more in the states and I am sure there they would be repaired there. Not sure any companies would be keen here. Easier just to say " sorry mate it's scrap".

We have taken it to EPS in wiveliscome. They have a bloke come in on monday and wednesday to do insert tooth circular saw blades aparently. Looks like quite the outfit from the small peek inside the door i got. lots of toys in there!

 

[Hawkes]

We have taken it to EPS in wiveliscome. They have a bloke come in on monday and wednesday to do insert tooth circular saw blades aparently. Looks like quite the outfit from the small peek inside the door i got. lots of toys in there!

Good company, it was started by Mike Edwards in the early 80's, he was the saw doctor at Goulds Sawmill at Greenham, they were the biggest mill in SW for quite a few years. They had a hardwood mill and a softwood mill, two separate lines. Mike branched off on his own and we were one of his first customers, we had only been going for a few years then too. He sold out a few years back and I think retired to the channel islands , so did well.
Jeff Gould was a character, tough hard working chap. When the blokes arrived in the morning Jeff would have everything up and running ready, no dawdling around starting up! I went to see him when we first got going and he gave me a tour around and some good advice. He closed the mills and went farming, had a well known pedigree dairy herd.

 

[Jsmith2211]

Good company, it was started by Mike Edwards in the early 80's, he was the saw doctor at Goulds Sawmill at Greenham, they were the biggest mill in SW for quite a few years. They had a hardwood mill and a softwood mill, two separate lines. Mike branched off on his own and we were one of his first customers, we had only been going for a few years then too. He sold out a few years back and I think retired to the channel islands , so did well.
Jeff Gould was a character, tough hard working chap. When the blokes arrived in the morning Jeff would have everything up and running ready, no dawdling around starting up! I went to see him when we first got going and he gave me a tour around and some good advice. He closed the mills and went farming, had a well known pedigree dairy herd.

How big of a mill do you run then?

 

[Hawkes]

How big of a mill do you run then?

Retired from commercial sawmilling 15 years ago to go farming full time. Just a boring old fart ex miller now, who likes talking about the old days. I enjoy the history side and looking at how the industry started out and developed. Milling is an interesting process and the automation side of it was fascinating.

 

[RushesToo]

@Hawkes come on tell us more, how good is your saw hammering, I'm really interested. The fact that you had some obscure book on your shelf that you knew well enough to go look for was impressive.


BTW, I htought the diagrams were not terribly helpful in truing up a saw, more technical diagrams would have heped explain far better..

 

[Hawkes]

@Hawkes come on tell us more, how good is your saw hammering, I'm really interested. The fact that you had some obscure book on your shelf that you knew well enough to go look for was impressive.


BTW, I htought the diagrams were not terribly helpful in truing up a saw, more technical diagrams would have heped explain far better..

Ok , ok , here we go. I admit to a guilty secret.
Last year I had a big circular saw blade go bad on our old farm Stenner rackbench , it is permanently set up in an old shed here and I cut a few gate posts etc from farm timber purely for my own amusement and to remind me how I started. Either with tractor or steam engine driving it depending on how rushed we are!
So I decided to have a go at hammering it myself. I found our last saw doctor and bought all his circular saw hammers for a start. Read up the subject in old books i have. Made a frame , had a go. It is surprising how little banging it takes to move the metal. I practised on a scrap 4ft blade, after 2 hours i had a gigantic saucer. Bit too much dynamite there Butch, so after more efforts started to get the hang of it. I now do mine but wouldn't want to do anyone elses!!

Someone will tell me that is all wrong, but I am enjoying myself trying to learn a new skill. Bandsaws were a lot easier, we had machines to sharpen, swage and tension blades, but this is proper old school witchcraft. You hammer it, then hang it on the mandrel to check how it is looking and rotate it to see if it is running true. Back on the anvil after marking areas you need to work on. Another 20 years i'll have it sussed but I'll be 90 and too bloody tired to pick up a hammer.

 

[RushesToo]

@Hawkes Great workshop, interesting contents and a seemingly insatiable desire to learn. You will die at the reins and there is no better way to go.

I am surprised that you put them so out of true without causing cracks. YouTube will show me how hard they can be welted without damage. Have you thought about putting videos up there? it would be so much better than the book was.

 

[RushesToo]

A whole World opened up. Thank you.

 

[renewablejohn]

Ok , ok , here we go. I admit to a guilty secret.
Last year I had a big circular saw blade go bad on our old farm Stenner rackbench , it is permanently set up in an old shed here and I cut a few gate posts etc from farm timber purely for my own amusement and to remind me how I started. Either with tractor or steam engine driving it depending on how rushed we are!
So I decided to have a go at hammering it myself. I found our last saw doctor and bought all his circular saw hammers for a start. Read up the subject in old books i have. Made a frame , had a go. It is surprising how little banging it takes to move the metal. I practised on a scrap 4ft blade, after 2 hours i had a gigantic saucer. Bit too much dynamite there Butch, so after more efforts started to get the hang of it. I now do mine but wouldn't want to do anyone elses!! View attachment 903071View attachment 903072View attachment 903073View attachment 903074


Someone will tell me that is all wrong, but I am enjoying myself trying to learn a new skill. Bandsaws were a lot easier, we had machines to sharpen, swage and tension blades, but this is proper old school witchcraft. You hammer it, then hang it on the mandrel to check how it is looking and rotate it to see if it is running true. Back on the anvil after marking areas you need to work on. Another 20 years i'll have it sussed but I'll be 90 and too bloody tired to pick up a hammer.

Great respect. Your a braver man than me, My racksaw blade is a similar size and I certainly would not put a hammer to it.Thankfully the experts are local.