Will there be Ag support payments in 2020?

[teslacoils]

Like students, farmers tend to get their free dosh in one hand then it swiftly leaves the other. Better than giving it to biddies to stuff under the mattress.

 

[steveR]

Everyone I know of round here tends to spend most of their money buying supplies from local companies, given the option. Isn’t that the case everywhere?
We buy bits & pieces from cheaper (often online) suppliers, but the vast majority is spent with local businesses, who in turn employ local people, who spend money locally. The ‘dole’ goes round in circles and ends up back in the exchequer’s pocket very quickly.

Spot on.

 

[S J H]

So do I .

I've read so many times "it keeps these small family farms in business" but it would be far better for rural communities if those small family farms actually made decent profit and ploughed it back into those small rural towns; instead of the dealers in the big smoke, etc etc

I also know a lot of you guys look "at what happened in NZ" and think it would be bloody awful, but in fact a dairy worker earning $60k tends to spend a lot more locally than a farmowner barely breaking ever does.... his money goes to the city, never to return

That's the whole point of these payments, surely?
A way to get freshly minted money into the city coffers, into the big companies, which drives inequality

Another £22m in grants gone out this week @Kiwi Pete for people to buy kit that they were either going to buy anyway, or buying it because it's free money.

Spoke to a chap who has sold 60 sheep handling systems, but won't have any work in February when it all ends.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Everyone I know of round here tends to spend most of their money buying supplies from local companies, given the option. Isn’t that the case everywhere?
We buy bits & pieces from cheaper (often online) suppliers, but the vast majority is spent with local businesses, who in turn employ local people, who spend money locally. The ‘dole’ goes round in circles and ends up back in the exchequer’s pocket very quickly.

Possibly.... not sure TBH what everyone spends their money on.
What I do see are a heap of happily employed locals around here, despite decades of pretty low farmgate prices and no assistance; so the often touted "is it better to have one 600 cow farm or 10 60 cow farms" is not really as clear cut as all that.

It's better to have people making their own money than being given some and told where to spend it

 

[glasshouse]

Maybe as a tenant farmer, Corbyn would let me buy my farm off the overseas trust fund, headed by a Tory peer. Who, incidentally have zero interest in the farms or the community, preferring to leave farm stead’s and houses empty, whilst letting land only on FBTs. Farms that once supported families that used the school, shop , pub etc.
Making me think how selfish a lot of these Tory’s are. Probably don’t pay much tax, as the trustees keep moving to different offshore locations.

Well said

 

[czechmate]

I dearly hope that farms become self funding through better returns in the market place and put handouts to bed , for ever

Its a nice idea Derrick but that wasn’t working, it’s why the subs came

 

[Gedd]

What happensto all the defra staff if subs disappear

 

[neilo]

What happensto all the defra staff if subs disappear

They will Cary on doing inspections. Regulations aren’t going to go away, they’ll just get harder to enforce.

 

[Hindsight]

Like students, farmers tend to get their free dosh in one hand then it swiftly leaves the other. Better than giving it to biddies to stuff under the mattress.

Giving farmers this cash is a blunderbuss approach. Bear with me.

A proportion (and we can debate that proportion separately) goes to the supplier of the land, through rent or as reward for ownership of land, for owner occupiers.

Lets say I owned a field which you rented from me. You would be a farmer, salt of the earth, toiling to produce food, good fella, and submit a BPS form to receive £220 hectare. That you then hand over to me as rent for the joy of farming.

Lets say then that I do not invest any of that back in the land. I do not frequent tractor dealers locally or sheep bit suppliers. No I take that money and buy a ferrari from a shop in Leicester and live in my Swiss chalet - as you can see I have dreams!

So what is the payment to land truly achieving. 4000 words for week after next please!

 

[Hindsight]

Its a nice idea Derrick but that wasn’t working, it’s why the subs came

FT is to an extent disingenuous. Farmers have choice now. They do not have to take subsidy payments now. So it is likely payments for some form of activity or purpose will continue into the future. And farmers will again have choice to not participate. But I suspect many will as it will be financially advantageous. And they will continue to rail against this. As night follows day.

 

[S J H]

Giving farmers this cash is a blunderbuss approach. Bear with me.

A proportion (and we can debate that proportion separately) goes to the supplier of the land, through rent or as reward for ownership of land, for owner occupiers.

Lets say I owned a field which you rented from me. You would be a farmer, salt of the earth, toiling to produce food, good fella, and submit a BPS form to receive £220 hectare. That you then hand over to me as rent for the joy of farming.

Lets say then that I do not invest any of that back in the land. I do not frequent tractor dealers locally or sheep bit suppliers. No I take that money and buy a ferrari from a shop in Leicester and live in my Swiss chalet - as you can see I have dreams!

So what is the payment to land truly achieving. 4000 words for week after next please!

It's not acheiveing anything, they go on about food security, but if that's the case, pay it on per kilo of food leaving the farm, like the opposite of a levy.

 

[Hindsight]

It's not acheiveing anything, they go on about food security, but if that's the case, pay it on per kilo of food leaving the farm, like the opposite of a levy.

Yes, possibly. I have not thought it through to be honest.

Or / and additionally return to capital grants to farm improvements - my mind today here in a soggy Lincolnshire is on drainage, for example. Or if the consumer is concerned about vermin accessing grain stores and cross contamination of fertiliser and grains through dual use a payment to improve grain storage. Just wild examples that spring to mind.

The current subsidy system seems so obtuse. In the eye of the consumer and politicians and from comments on here from farmers linked to food production. Food in a nebulous sense. Food stuffs? Includes fodder for AD electricity production, grain for ethanol for vehicle usage, grain for pet food and rat bait. In addition to my Weetabix about to eat. But no it is a subsidy for food. Hey ho. the world is a complex place.

 

[S J H]

Yes, possibly. I have not thought it through to be honest.

Or / and additionally return to capital grants to farm improvements - my mind today here in a soggy Lincolnshire is on drainage, for example. Or if the consumer is concerned about vermin accessing grain stores and cross contamination of fertiliser and grains through dual use a payment to improve grain storage. Just wild examples that spring to mind.

The current subsidy system seems so obtuse. In the eye of the consumer and politicians and from comments on here from farmers linked to food production. Food in a nebulous sense. Food stuffs? Includes fodder for AD electricity production, grain for ethanol for vehicle usage, grain for pet food and rat bait. In addition to my Weetabix about to eat. But no it is a subsidy for food. Hey ho. the world is a complex place.

I'd agree with infrastructure like drainage. I'm just fed up with speaking to non farmers and them making the same joke about government handouts.

 

[yellow belly]

The reason the current system has got where it is is because under international free trade treaties the connection between production and government support had to be stopped this system of connection had been in existence since 1948 in the uk
when it started grants for drainage fertiliser and land improvement were paid to farmers for land producing food

 

[Campani]

Everyone I know of round here tends to spend most of their money buying supplies from local companies, given the option. Isn’t that the case everywhere?
We buy bits & pieces from cheaper (often online) suppliers, but the vast majority is spent with local businesses, who in turn employ local people, who spend money locally. The ‘dole’ goes round in circles and ends up back in the exchequer’s pocket very quickly.

I would be really interested to know how much of the BPS payments go towards paying down debt. Either towards mortgages or business loan interest. I would think at least 25%?

If you want to support rural communities give the money equally to posts offices, local pubs, schools and community sports teams. They are as important to rural communities.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I would be really interested to know how much of the BPS payments go towards paying down debt. Either towards mortgages or business loan interest. I would think at least 25%?

If you want to support rural communities give the money equally to posts offices, local pubs, schools and community sports teams. They are as important to rural communities.

To late they gone , dead as a doornail here. Done a great job this sub aint it

 

[Bossfarmer]

look at the current situation with beef prices many claim they cant continue, there are calls for uk beef farmers to get aid like the 100million euros irish farmers got, what do you think will happen if these farmers dont get any sub next year? every one of them will be finished

 

[ajd132]

look at the current situation with beef prices many claim they cant continue, there are calls for uk beef farmers to get aid like the 100million euros irish farmers got, what do you think will happen if these farmers dont get any sub next year? every one of them will be finished

Stop massively over supplying beef.

 

[digger64]

look at the current situation with beef prices many claim they cant continue, there are calls for uk beef farmers to get aid like the 100million euros irish farmers got, what do you think will happen if these farmers dont get any sub next year? every one of them will be finished

They will pay (I guess ) 70% less for grass and pay the fat price per kg for calves and stores and if the seller doesn't like it they will be told to eat it or them themselves .

 

[Bossfarmer]

Stop massively over supplying beef.

tell that to the irish