Farming without subsidies

farmerm · Jan 13, 2019

hally said:
Does that mean 9 to 5 and weekends off?
If so he gets my vote

9-4 and 3 day weekends Us farmers would be bored shitless and be compelled to spend time with other people, like family, probably even have to go shopping, horrendous thought

McDonald will have Corbyn replace BPS we receive for owning land with BTS (basic tax system) whereby we are made to pay for owning land, after they claim 10% shares in all businesss with assets of more than £1

unlacedgecko · Jan 14, 2019

hally said:
Sounds so easy it's amazing everybody is not doing it
We going to have to do something different as the CAP has been such a failure. Oh hang on we have a plentiful supply of food that costs the public a fraction of their income compared to a generation ago produced in some of the safest and sustainable ways as an industry I'm ashamed we could have done better

Why does it matter what everyone else does? Surely the whole point of being an independent business owner is the freedom to run your business however you want?

unlacedgecko · Jan 14, 2019

http://www.beefresearch.ca/blog/fiv...n2lX4K4Ny3rQeHq64ZQ0152tezW7YL89Wjik2Vfcrva9k

manhill · Jan 14, 2019

Kiwi Pete said:
Aren't they already?

Aye and without gold plated gov. pension as well!

Kiwi Pete · Jan 14, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
http://www.beefresearch.ca/blog/fiv...n2lX4K4Ny3rQeHq64ZQ0152tezW7YL89Wjik2Vfcrva9k

Nice, thanks for sharing that lil gem

have just seen an opportunity in that to explore. Time for a pay rise.

fgc325j · Jan 14, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
http://www.beefresearch.ca/blog/fiv...n2lX4K4Ny3rQeHq64ZQ0152tezW7YL89Wjik2Vfcrva9k

A comment by Lester Whittingham about using an electric fence, that is the nugget statement, i was
able to get more milk from every acre using the same amount of fertelizer, by using an electric fence
to control the grazing, than the old man did by just turning the cows into the field after every milking
I reckon those beef and sheep farmers who will prosper, will be those who learn about their grassland
management from the leading dairy farmers.

Hilly · Jan 14, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
Why does it matter what everyone else does? Surely the whole point of being an independent business owner is the freedom to run your business however you want?

That freedom is being eroded fast, not just farming everything.

lazy farmer · Jan 14, 2019

Hilly said:
That freedom is being eroded fast, not just farming everything.

Really?
I got up yesterday and did exactly what I wanted and the day before that and the day before that. Oh I did drive at roughly the speed limit and wear a seat belt but then both of these were common sense as well.

fudge · Jan 14, 2019

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...n-plans-improve-on-eu-rules-government-claims
Farm without subsidy maybe? Farm with greater regulation definitely! Time for farmers to make the case for UK organic subsidy. Those who wish to compete with the South Americans with ever increasing environmental regs would of course be free to do so. Organic farming appears to be much more in tune with the post Brexit political landscape but it does need subsidy to thrive.

willy · Jan 14, 2019

Farmer Roy said:
haha - before I got bored with it, I used to suggest subs for Tescos / Sainsburys every time these threads popped up. After all, THEY are the ones that feed people, if everyone is so worried about food security, cheap food & feeding the world . . .
needless to say, no one agreed with me

Im not a sub fan per se, however reading one of your posts yesterday did make me think hold on are they really that bad, you are selling your house ( i presume as no income for possibly 2 years due to drought). well a subsidized industry would be helping farmers in times of such needs. it also does benefit the consumer through more guaranteed supply and also the wider economy (probably not so much for large scale outback farms). but the UK is indeed different to AUS and NZ on many social and economic araeas. we are based next to a continent who are very commited to subs suport and our land area is not competing just with farmers but also developmentas we are well overpopulated and so along with non ag opportunities there is also lack of cheap land to produce cheap food.

so maybe we have it so wrong or maybe you have it so wrong, but to be honest maybe we both have many poitives and negatives and we could all learn from each other. i think this antipodean view that they are the greatest farmers and we are not is not as black and white as we all think.

7610 super q · Jan 14, 2019

Not a fan of subs either.....that's what's got us into this deep rut. Anyhoo, if I was to be persuaded to part with £10k / acre + for land, I'd want a consistent £500 / acre profit per year. Milk may do it.....but every 18 months or so it's on the floor, and folks are protesting outside Tesco's. Organic veg did it easily, till the wheels fell off the bandwagon. Corn has done well the last 2 years, but that won't last.

So what's the profit per acre for techno

grazing @unlacedgecko ? And is it sustainable for the next 20 years ?

unlacedgecko · Jan 14, 2019

7610 super q said:
Not a fan of subs either.....that's what's got us into this deep rut. Anyhoo, if I was to be persuaded to part with £10k / acre + for land, I'd want a consistent £500 / acre profit per year. Milk may do it.....but every 18 months or so it's on the floor, and folks are protesting outside Tesco's. Organic veg did it easily, till the wheels fell off the bandwagon. Corn has done well the last 2 years, but that won't last.

So what's the profit per acre for techno grazing @unlacedgecko ? And is it sustainable for the next 20 years ?

The videos of Temataa station I posted earlier show a kiwi example. They're producing 400kg beef per hectare (dead weight). There sheep flock is less intensively grazed and produces 250kg per hectare (dead weight).

Rob Fleming is a beef farmer and finisher near Stranraer, Scotland. He had a trial 6ha that was very well managed and made a net profit of £3000/ha, grazing 68 animals for over 200days. I visited him last summer.

Rhys Williams of Huraura Romney's (not to be confused with dairy Rhys Williams) finishes over 1200 Romney tup lambs off a 100 acre techno system.

Sam Pearson on Twitter produced 800kg lw per acre with a 40 acre techno system at 1000ft in North Wales.

To me these look like highly profitable, sustainable systems, but you draw your own conclusions.

If you want to know more contact James at Precision Grazing Ltd http://www.precisiongrazing.com or PM me.

Or Google "technograzing".

jendan · Jan 14, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
The videos of Temataa station I posted earlier show a kiwi example. They're producing 400kg beef per hectare (dead weight). There sheep flock is less intensively grazed and produces 250kg per hectare (dead weight).

Rob Fleming is a beef farmer and finisher near Stranraer, Scotland. He had a trial 6ha that was very well managed and made a net profit of £3000/ha, grazing 68 animals for over 200days. I visited him last summer.

Rhys Williams of Huraura Romney's (not to be confused with dairy Rhys Williams) finishes over 1200 Romney tup lambs off a 100 acre techno system.

Sam Pearson on Twitter produced 800kg lw per acre with a 40 acre techno system at 1000ft in North Wales.

To me these look like highly profitable, sustainable systems, but you draw your own conclusions.

If you want to know more contact James at Precision Grazing Ltd http://www.precisiongrazing.com or PM me.

Or Google "technograzing".

Stanraer and Wales

. What about on Livestock1 type of farm? We could maybe try it with some techno heather,or techno bog.

lazy farmer · Jan 14, 2019

aren’t you even the littlest bit curious?

unlacedgecko · Jan 14, 2019

jendan said:
Stanraer and Wales. What about on Livestock1 type of farm? We could maybe try it with some techno heather,or techno bog.

I don't know what his farm is like.

If he's got some in bye ground the electrical subdivision will help to extend the grazing period, reducing winter costs.

unlacedgecko · Jan 14, 2019

jendan said:
Stanraer and Wales. What about on Livestock1 type of farm? We could maybe try it with some techno heather,or techno bog.

I visited a very successful Scottish hill farmer in the summer. He is using suckler cows and electric fencing to break in hill ground, converting it into in bye ground.

I also visited a new dairy conversion. The land was severely neglected. He drained the land before burning off the rubbish, disking it and sowing rye grass. Jersey cows are milked twice a day for a liquid drinking contract.

The accounts he showed me were very profitable, without taking into account the substantial capital uplift.

Visit some of these people and see for yourself. I found them extremely welcoming and open.

Lazy Sod · Jan 14, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
He is using suckler cows and electric fencing to break in hill ground, converting it into in bye ground.

How are the cows doing that, loosening the soil with their horns and kicking it back down the hill with their feet?

Surely, in bye land has to be level enough to carry machinery?

unlacedgecko · Jan 14, 2019

Lazy Sod said:
How are the cows doing that, loosening the soil with their horns and kicking it back down the hill with their feet?

Surely, in bye land has to be level enough to carry machinery?

Maybe I've used the wrong word and it's not in bye. But cattle are improving it and making the sheep more profitable.

Why does in bye land need to be level enough for machinery?

Hilly · Jan 14, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
Maybe I've used the wrong word and it's not in bye. But cattle are improving it and making the sheep more profitable.

Why does in bye land need to be level enough for machinery?

Can only be good, im warming to trying it myself. Had a bit of hill totaly romped off last summer with cows , my god it came away beautiful afterwards.

Lazy Sod · Jan 14, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
Why does in bye land need to be level enough for machinery?

Don't hill farmers make hay or silage off their in bye land?

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