Flat 10 for conventional bales

scrubbuster · Jul 14, 2023

Is anyone using anything in between a flat 8 and a proper packer like a Baron?
I work a cooks flat 8 and it works pretty well for me for gathering. I only do 2-3000 at any one time at the moment. I could up that to 10000 in time, but I would need more storage space.
I would love a packer but I don't fancy going down the route of big finance bills and chasing work to justify it, done plenty of that and not sure I am the better for it!
The flat 8 is fine for gathering and stacking in the shed but hauliers are getting less and less interested in taking wee bales that need hand built and as time goes on less and less know how to do it even if they are game.
I did speak to one that said you can stack them straight on without touching them with a flat 10.
I have been looking online at the Tubeline system.
Anyone with any experience?

bobk · Jul 14, 2023

@Flat 10

Flat 10 · Jul 14, 2023

Use a proper flat 10 with 4ft bales. Never touch a bale. Never met a user of the 8 +2 crossways system but I can't see it being as good as a true Flat 10. Remember a flat 10 has equivalent to approx 13 flat 8 bales in so you are creating a lot less packs to load.

scrubbuster · Jul 14, 2023

Thanks for the reply.
What do you mean by a proper flat 10? 5 and 5 the same way?

Flat 10 · Jul 14, 2023

scrubbuster said:
Thanks for the reply.
What do you mean by a proper flat 10? 5 and 5 the same way?

Correct. 4ft bales. Cheap and simple.

scrubbuster · Jul 14, 2023

Would that work on a lorry though without being manually rearranged? The haulier was saying he has been loaded with the 8 and 2 crossways type without touching a a bale. Making big long bales to fill the lorry space wouldn't suit the end users in our case. Bales need to be twice as long as they are broad

scrubbuster · Jul 14, 2023

So do you stack them on lorries all running the same way?

Flat 10 · Jul 14, 2023

scrubbuster said:
So do you stack them on lorries all running the same way?

No. Alternate.

scrubbuster · Jul 14, 2023

Ah so 2 one way 5 the the other because the are longer? Do you have any pictures handy?

Two Tone · Jul 14, 2023

Never could understand the advantage of the 8+2 system, insofar that on a standard 5+5 system, those middle 2 bales interlock when criss-crossed, stopping them splitting into 4 cubes that can happen with Flat 8’s.

The only disadvantage is that Flat 10 bales must be 25% longer to create a square pack and those buying by-the-bale often want that 20% extra for free!

This is the only reason why I stick with Flat 8’s as my horsey customer’s are a crafty bunch!
Then they complain that bales that are too heavy or too long and won’t fit in the totally unnecessary fashion-icon steamer!

Apart from that, I cannot understand why Flat 10’s aren’t a lot more popular.

One thing that I find a huge advantage is using an artic steer loader to crowds bales together by just turning the steering wheel.

scrubbuster · Jul 14, 2023

Two Tone said:
Never could understand the advantage of the 8+2 system, insofar that on a standard 5+5 system, those middle 2 bales interlock when criss-crossed, stopping them splitting into 4 cubes that can happen with Flat 8’s.

The only disadvantage is that Flat 10 bales must be 25% longer to create a square pack and those buying by-the-bale often want that 20% extra for free!

This is the only reason why I stick with Flat 8’s as my horsey customer’s are a crafty bunch!
Then they complain that bales that are too heavy or too long and won’t fit in the totally unnecessary fashion-icon steamer!

Apart from that, I cannot understand why Flat 10’s aren’t a lot more popular.

One thing that I find a huge advantage is using an artic steer loader to crowds bales together by just turning the steering wheel.

The reason you don't use it is the same reason that makes it not really an option for my system and probably many others. I can see how it would work well in other cases though as it obviously does fro @Flat 10
I am interested to find out more about the 8 and 2 system, if it can get loaded straight on a lorry

Flat 10 · Jul 14, 2023

scrubbuster said:
The reason you don't use it is the same reason that makes it not really an option for my system and probably many others. I can see how it would work well in other cases though as it obviously does fro @Flat 10
I am interested to find out more about the 8 and 2 system, if it can get loaded straight on a lorry

Why wouldn't you be able to load using an 8 +2 system? Alternate which side the crossways ones are and rope/strap well. Best to muddle the middle of the 8 bit up now and again to tie the stacks.

Flat 10 · Jul 14, 2023

Two Tone said:
Never could understand the advantage of the 8+2 system, insofar that on a standard 5+5 system, those middle 2 bales interlock when criss-crossed, stopping them splitting into 4 cubes that can happen with Flat 8’s.

The only disadvantage is that Flat 10 bales must be 25% longer to create a square pack and those buying by-the-bale often want that 20% extra for free!

This is the only reason why I stick with Flat 8’s as my horsey customer’s are a crafty bunch!
Then they complain that bales that are too heavy or too long and won’t fit in the totally unnecessary fashion-icon steamer!

Apart from that, I cannot understand why Flat 10’s aren’t a lot more popular.

One thing that I find a huge advantage is using an artic steer loader to crowds bales together by just turning the steering wheel.

Hay steamers are really not needed for good hay

scrubbuster · Jul 14, 2023

Flat 10 said:
Why wouldn't you be able to load using an 8 +2 system? Alternate which side the crossways ones are and rope/strap well. Best to muddle the middle of the 8 bit up now and again to tie the stacks.

I think that would work that is why I am thinking about that system. Never seen one work or spoken to anyone that's used it except for the lorry driver, and that was a brief conversation.
The Tubline is the only one I have looked online. What else is out there?

Ali_Maxxum · Jul 14, 2023

I like the idea of a packer, Arcusin type, not the Baron/Bandit, but of course ties up a tractor/man, packs of 14 I think rather than 21.

I do think maybe we have really reached the limit for mechanising the handling of a bale, which soul purpose is to be handled by hand!

Unless you’ve got lovely flat fields, big open sheds, flat yards and plenty of space, little bales are work, pure and simple, which people just do not seem to want, regardless of what they’re paid and how much cider and chips you put in front of them!

I know of people who can flat 8, haul and stack without touching any, of which I am immensely jealous, would probably be more worth while in the long run investing in your infrastructure to do that rather than special kit.

Will 1594 · Jul 14, 2023

Look across the pond for ideas
cool idea Banding 8 s or10 s Or15 on edge

carbonfibre farmer · Jul 14, 2023

For ideas, there are a few on here -

Small/Conventional baler group. | Facebook

A face book group for small/Conventional balers. Pictures, setting tips,problem solving etc. whether a new welger/Massey inline or an old welger trusser. A group for the fans of idiot bricks!

www.facebook.com

Flat 10 · Jul 14, 2023

Stop making something simple complicated

ffukedfarmer · Jul 14, 2023

Personally I wouldn't go flat 10 with 4' bales unless you are using the bales yourself or can find customers who will pay a premium for a larger bale.

I have gone from flat 8s to flat 10 (8+2) to a bale baron with my bales getting shorter at each step and I can't really think that any of my customers have commented negatively on receiving shorter bales, in fact I had on or 2 react positively as they like a lighter, easier to handle bale.

When I ran the flat 10 system we used to load trailers 8 layers high strapped for the road or 7 layers high unstrapped within the farm.

I used to use a Kuhns Mfg sledge which worked really well and is a much better concept than the tubeline sledge in my view as you aren't dragging the bales along the ground and it will continue to work well at a crawl.

Two Tone · Jul 14, 2023

Flat 10 said:
Hay steamers are really not needed for good hay

………Unless you live in the Cotswolds, where they are regarded as a fashion icon.
Without which “You are not fit to look after horses!”
And the more it costs, the more they want it
…………except for the horse hay!

Flat 10 for conventional bales

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