Call out charges

Dry Rot · Nov 11, 2023

Put this is Agriculture because call out charges can apply to lots of things.

Simple question: A straight forward (mechanic, vet, or other) call out is easy enough to understand and usually involves time and mileage. But what is the contractural situation when you know the vet or mechanic is visiting next door at the same time? I've done a search but nothing came up. I phoned my local dealer to pick his brains about a suspicious noise coming from a machine. I had mentioned a similar problem when collecting a part and it had been suggested that next time I ask as they were always 'pleased to help'.

This time I was told that my enquiry was handy because Bert would be passing my farm later on in the day on the way to another job and it would be no bother to pop in and have a listen -- which Bert duly did. The 'listening' took about 20 minutes and did not result in conclusive advice. (How long does anyone have to listen to a noise to identify it?). The mechanic thought it might be this or that and suggested 'the other' but didn't really know.

In due course, a fairly substantial bill arrived which seemed excessive for what was involved. I have had similar bills from others which includes a large call out fee. Frankly, it is bad public relations at the very least when he's in the area anyway. Is it even legal when the 'professional' is visiting next door who is being charged the same for mileage, i.e. from workshop to farm?

Paddington · Nov 11, 2023

Many years ago I called at the vets to pick up something and got talking to the vet who was outside lighting his pipe. I told him we had some new sheep and perhaps he could look them over next time he was passing ? He replied he was never passing. He might drive past our house, but he was never passing. He would be delighted to look over our sheep, a breed he was unfamiliar with, but we would need to make an appointment and there would be a charge for his time.
James Herriot has a lot to answer for.

Farmer Fin · Nov 11, 2023

Dry Rot said:
Put this is Agriculture because call out charges can apply to lots of things.

Simple question: A straight forward (mechanic, vet, or other) call out is easy enough to understand and usually involves time and mileage. But what is the contractural situation when you know the vet or mechanic is visiting next door at the same time? I've done a search but nothing came up. I phoned my local dealer to pick his brains about a suspicious noise coming from a machine. I had mentioned a similar problem when collecting a part and it had been suggested that next time I ask as they were always 'pleased to help'.

This time I was told that my enquiry was handy because Bert would be passing my farm later on in the day on the way to another job and it would be no bother to pop in and have a listen -- which Bert duly did. The 'listening' took about 20 minutes and did not result in conclusive advice. (How long does anyone have to listen to a noise to identify it?). The mechanic thought it might be this or that and suggested 'the other' but didn't really know.

In due course, a fairly substantial bill arrived which seemed excessive for what was involved. I have had similar bills from others which includes a large call out fee. Frankly, it is bad public relations at the very least when he's in the area anyway. Is it even legal when the 'professional' is visiting next door who is being charged the same for mileage, i.e. from workshop to farm?

Depends on how it’s done. In my previous job call out fee was flat no matter where you lived, why penalise people who lived further away yet you wanted the work. The way we looked at it was visit fees just covered the cost of the car and some some time and all averaged out. Same apply to farms close to base doesn’t necessarily mean you are going there direct from the base. Could be travelling from farm to farm. Personally I hate mileage charges as they always seem unfair.

som farmer · Nov 11, 2023

suspect it all averages out.

just imagine every farmer had a callout fee, dependant on how far from base, bloody warfare would follow.

new vet once took 45mins to get here from my neighbour, 5 mins max, he got his right and left muddled up

but when we need them, in very unsociable hours, they turn up.

Stroppymonkey · Nov 11, 2023

Plumbing and heating company here. We’ve struggled with this for years. Hourly rate alone doesn’t pay the bills when you’re doing 4-8 calls a day. We used to charge a higher first hourly rate but that was a nightmare with accounts software and if it was only 5 minute job your screwed yourself. We tried a minimum of one hour charge but that antagonised people . Mileage or travel time is a nightmare as if travel an hour round trip and see 2 customers then which one pays the travel? These days we just have a flat job fee (currently £42) which goes on every small job. If it’s a full days work then we drop it. If we have to revisit with parts etc then we don’t charge it again, but do a minimum of one hour charge then. We only cover a 15 mile radius for small jobs , and whilst local customers might think they are subsidising the ones further away (which they are) they do get a faster / better service due to convenience of being closer. It’s not perfect but best solution we have found so far. We don’t really do out of hours calls but if we do it’s usually only for existing clients and it’s a flying visit to rescue them and then return in normal hours to do it properly.

Barleymow · Nov 11, 2023

When I was getting divorced had a meeting with the solicitor. I noticed he jotted down the time it finished. We then had a 10 minute chat he then changed the time he had written down

Steevo · Nov 11, 2023

Barleymow said:
When I was getting divorced had a meeting with the solicitor. I noticed he jotted down the time it finished. We then had a 10 minute chat he then changed the time he had written down

Some professionals can be frustrating like that as often they are the ones that instigate small talk because to them it's more interesting than the day job.

Adeptandy · Nov 11, 2023

I’ll happily chat after the jobs finished, but if you stop me working whilst doing it then I’m on the clock. If it’s chat during the job it’s generally educating the customer about their boiler/system so feel that’s chargeable.
£50 for the first hour or part thereof if within 15 mins from home.
Do have a Robin Hood policy on pricing, if your genuinely struggling with finances then I’ll be very considerate to pricing, if your more affluent you’ll pay more.

BuskhillFarm · Nov 11, 2023

It’s the world we live in sadly. I wouldn’t have the heart to do it, so don’t do those types of jobs

Paddington · Nov 11, 2023

We had an American client at work, we would deal with him over the phone. I say we, as for some reason he took a shine to me and wouldn't talk to anyone else. He was setting up a business in Wisconsin and needed some advice, about everything... He would ring me at 5pm and I would be on the phone till 6pm. We never had had any money out of him, my boss said to tell him we would have to charge consultancy fees on an hourly rate. He agreed, I kept a log of the phone calls and we eventually billed him for $500, he would send a cheque off. Weeks went by, the cheque was in the post, the calls continued. Finally a cheque arrived . The sales office were delighted, no one had ever got money from this man before. They enlarged the cheque and hung it on their wall. I got loads of brownie points for my talents. Weeks later a visitor peered at the cheque and made a comment about its date and validity ? In the excitement the cheque had not been banked.

Wood field · Nov 11, 2023

Had a farmer phone me up saying his bottle filler wouldn’t tighten the caps up , I said I can take a look but am busy in the workshop, anyway he insisted it was desperate and that he needed it looking at , ok I’ll come and have a look , where are you , address duly noted he asked how much will it be .
I said £35 per hour plus vat and travel, he hit the roof so I calmly said that’s what it is do you want me to come?
He reluctantly agreed and I went over the hills to see him, there were two x5 BMWs and a defender sat there but he still moaned on about £35an hour
I said how much does a service cost on the x5 , I think he said it was over £100 an hour at a place in Sheffield
Well then , you want me to come out and fix your machine but your moaning at my rate!
I quoted to make a new part versus getting the part from the USA via a uk rep , he was having none of it so I left
Weeks later a local firm contacted me .. do you know anything about federal fillers …,
Don’t tell me it won’t put caps on … good luck !

Steevo · Nov 11, 2023

Adeptandy said:
I’ll happily chat after the jobs finished, but if you stop me working whilst doing it then I’m on the clock. If it’s chat during the job it’s generally educating the customer about their boiler/system so feel that’s chargeable.
£50 for the first hour or part thereof if within 15 mins from home.
Do have a Robin Hood policy on pricing, if your genuinely struggling with finances then I’ll be very considerate to pricing, if your more affluent you’ll pay more.

Plumber/heating engineer firm near here charges £100 call out (and I believe first hour).

Local one man band I use is £45/hr now.

Timbo · Nov 11, 2023

Paddington said:
Many years ago I called at the vets to pick up something and got talking to the vet who was outside lighting his pipe. I told him we had some new sheep and perhaps he could look them over next time he was passing ? He replied he was never passing. He might drive past our house, but he was never passing. He would be delighted to look over our sheep, a breed he was unfamiliar with, but we would need to make an appointment and there would be a charge for his time.
James Herriot has a lot to answer for.

I don't see any problem with the vets attitude. Not only are you paying for his time, you are paying for his knowledge and experience.

toquark · Nov 11, 2023

Im sorry to say but this but some on here need a reality check. You are talking about professional advice here. A ten minute phone call “to a mate” who just happens to be a vet or a lawyer or a doctor or whatever and expecting some kind of dispensation is as disrespectful as it is unrealistic. Business is business.

You may be willing to work for nowt, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to. I charge my time out to clients, many of whom are farmers. Every minute and mile is clocked because it has to be. It’s not greed, it’s paying a mortgage and feeding a family.

Stroppymonkey · Nov 11, 2023

Steevo said:
Plumber/heating engineer firm near here charges £100 call out (and I believe first hour).

Local one man band I use is £45/hr now.

We are moving to £57/hr+vat in new year. I am horrified by it, but if I don’t pay the engineers enough then they will leave, and if I don’t charge enough then I’ll go bust and they will lose their job. My NFU bill for insurance last year was £24K alone, nothing is cheap.

MRT · Nov 11, 2023

toquark said:
Im sorry to say but this but some on here need a reality check. You are talking about professional advice here. A ten minute phone call “to a mate” who just happens to be a vet or a lawyer or a doctor or whatever and expecting some kind of dispensation is as disrespectful as it is unrealistic. Business is business.

You may be willing to work for nowt, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to. I charge my time out to clients, many of whom are farmers. Every minute and mile is clocked because it has to be. It’s not greed, it’s paying a mortgage and feeding a family.

Depends, if you are a fencer and did his fences for nothing because he was a mate you might expect help/advice for nothing, if you are a farmer and gave him a free lamb because he was a mate you'd expect it for nothing. If he is only a mate when you need advice you should pay.

Steevo · Nov 11, 2023

Stroppymonkey said:
We are moving to £57/hr+vat in new year. I am horrified by it, but if I don’t pay the engineers enough then they will leave, and if I don’t charge enough then I’ll go bust and they will lose their job. My NFU bill for insurance last year was £24K alone, nothing is cheap.

Good point that. £100 figure was plus VAT, £45 was no VAT.

Makes it jolly difficult when a one man band below the threshold doesn’t need to charge VAT but a slightly company with an employee or two does.

Exfarmer · Nov 11, 2023

some years ago a friend who was a solicitor and asked if I would like to go to an agricultural show with him. He had little knowledge of farming and wanted to expand it. I was quite happy to, on the way we had to pass his office and he suggested dropping in for a coffee. Again fine and so we sat in his rather plush office and he opened his post and made a couple of short dictations in reply for his secretary to type up and he also made a couple of calls.
While doing this he made notes on a form, as we left I asked him what were the very short notes on the form. Oh he said that is our standard charging form, 15 minutess to open a letter and digest, 30 minutes to respond, again 30 minutes for each phone call. I have managed to do 3 hours work this morning while you had a coffee, all of 20 minutes!

ollie989898 · Nov 11, 2023

Exfarmer said:
some years ago a friend who was a solicitor and asked if I would like to go to an agricultural show with him. He had little knowledge of farming and wanted to expand it. I was quite happy to, on the way we had to pass his office and he suggested dropping in for a coffee. Again fine and so we sat in his rather plush office and he opened his post and made a couple of short dictations in reply for his secretary to type up and he also made a couple of calls.
While doing this he made notes on a form, as we left I asked him what were the very short notes on the form. Oh he said that is our standard charging form, 15 minutess to open a letter and digest, 30 minutes to respond, again 30 minutes for each phone call. I have managed to do 3 hours work this morning while you had a coffee, all of 20 minutes!

I detest legal beagles for this very reason.

toquark · Nov 11, 2023

MRT said:
Depends, if you are a fencer and did his fences for nothing because he was a mate you might expect help/advice for nothing, if you are a farmer and gave him a free lamb because he was a mate you'd expect it for nothing.

Ok, I have had plenty of barter arrangements like this over my career, but professionals have to be careful. Indemnity insurance often won’t cover you if there’s not a contract in place or payment made/received. Many don’t understand this, and then get p155y when you refuse to indulge their desire for a freebie.

MRT said:
If he is only a mate when you need advice you should pay.

Sad to say there are plenty like this. Only call you when they need you, then expect a favour.

Call out charges

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Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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