anemic ewes

[JD-Kid]

here is one to think on
got some areas on farm ewes drop weight like a stone and have and times become anaemic mainly the poorer ones
not realy related to worms as far as can tell
feed lower feed value and soil high in Al low ph hill country
liver. tests in the best biggest fattest ones show high levels
poorer ones in the past low in liver coppers but big fat ones. almost too high so can't risk it
soil and plant. levels show low coppers tho so thats strange in it's self

any wild guesses of what to look in to more to work out why

 

[spin cycle]

haemonchus?...b'stard to diagnose.....any under jaw edema?.....how much rain you had recently?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Yes I was gonna say haemonchus.
Losing weight across the board or just some individuals?
I've found sky high counts in poor individuals whilst flock counts have been ok.

TE's beyond my pay grade! Just seem to be so variable and hard to pin down.

 

[JD-Kid]

not ment to have barbers pole in the South Island but I would not discount it bit more common in the north island
across the board weight loss in most cases
had a few more drys in 2 tooths and think they aborted very early so thinking a drop in oxygen some how and closer to lambing older ewes born 2011-2014 more at risk of showing signs

 

[Global ovine]

not ment to have barbers pole in the South Island but I would not discount it bit more common in the north island
across the board weight loss in most cases
had a few more drys in 2 tooths and think they aborted very early so thinking a drop in oxygen some how and closer to lambing older ewes born 2011-2014 more at risk of showing signs

Hi JD
Haemonchus is present in the SI. Quite a problem in Marlborough in the past when viticulture hadn't replaced sheep on the low country. I suggest involve a vet to answer that question. But in the meantime if you have any poorly ewe that is only dog tucker value, slaughter and check out the full length of the intestines. If they look reddened, cut them open (longways) and you should see large numbers of small worms attached to the internal gut walls. Collectively they drain lots of blood.
If this worm is the culprit, the question is when did they pick up the infection. Just because you have noticed it on your harder hill doesn't mean that it is the initial problem area. It may be expressed there because feed value is lower (especially protein content) so the ewes cannot compensate for the cost of hosting these worms. A timely FEC in the future may help.

I would discount your abortion theory regarding drop in oxygen, as all mammalian pregnancies take first share of blood nutrients even to the dams cost. However an anemic ewe may be more prone to a pathogen killing the foetus.

 

[JD-Kid]

Hi GO
yea vets looked in to it and he did think fluke maybe a prob was a inspector at works before moveing here and think he might of seen a few more things showing up were may not of been brought to vets normally
yea feed value on hill is crap more suited to beef cows in alot of ways
FEC dose not show up huge number in ewes but higher numbers in pre weaned lambs last year

dry 2 tooths when I shore some of them I killed 4 one fat older ewe and 3 light 2 tooths the fat one had higher amount of blood darker meat colour and higher fat the 2 tooths next door to no blood in them meat pale and even mushy marrow in legs when cut up
seen it before when had low copper levels but also changed to mineral drench capsules at the same time so lifted sel and B12

strange thing tho sheep have been going nuts over. by pass protein salt blocks with urea in them molasses P S Ca zinc never touched blocks in the past. tho not just licking them but. taking mouth fulls off the corners

Pregnant Sheep in a Farm Environment Did Not Develop Anaemia - PMC

Anaemia refers to a low red blood cell count and is common during pregnancy in women. Anaemia has been reported in sheep undergoing surgery during pregnancy for biomedical research projects. The incidence and severity of anaemia during pregnancy in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

ACSRPC | Other causes of anemia/bottle jaw

www.wormx.info

 

[primmiemoo]

I'm no specialist, but it sounds like a version of Pine, even though you've bolused, along with another shortage complex of some sort if worms aren't about. They will be wolfing anything that offers hope of putting back B vits, and probably want cobalt and calcium(?).

Fluke would make things worse, obviously.

 

[JD-Kid]

I'm no specialist, but it sounds like a version of Pine, even though you've bolused, along with another shortage complex of some sort if worms aren't about. They will be wolfing anything that offers hope of putting back B vits, and probably want cobalt and calcium(?).

Fluke would make things worse, obviously.

only got colbolt bolus 2 weeks ago I think there is something going on in the hill paddocks thats not realy showing up in soil tests need to get some herbage tests done up there

 

[primmiemoo]

only got colbolt bolus 2 weeks ago I think there is something going on in the hill paddocks thats not realy showing up in soil tests need to get some herbage tests done up there

Just a thought, but could there be a palatable plant around this year that slowly knocks the sheep's metabolism?

 

[JD-Kid]

Just a thought, but could there be a palatable plant around this year that slowly knocks the sheep's metabolism?

am wondering that if there is some native plants thats may have a efect or the water in area upsetting things

 

[Global ovine]

If @JD-Kid searched worldwide for plants or mineral imbalances etc. that may cause anaema, it still wouldn't answer the 3 important questions and may run away with all manner of unnecessary tests:

1. Has the production of red blood cells stopped needing bone marrow and spleen inspection?
2. Or, have the red blood cells died, needing a blood sample taken to see % of Heinz bodies (dead red blood cells)?
3. Or, if red blood cells are being made, what is draining them out of the system, parasites?

I suggest taking a live sheep showing advanced anaemia to a vet for a post mortum diagnosis to answer these questions before anything else.
All the best.

 

[JD-Kid]

If @JD-Kid searched worldwide for plants or mineral imbalances etc. that may cause anaema, it still wouldn't answer the 3 important questions and may run away with all manner of unnecessary tests:

1. Has the production of red blood cells stopped needing bone marrow and spleen inspection?
2. Or, have the red blood cells died, needing a blood sample taken to see % of Heinz bodies (dead red blood cells)?
3. Or, if red blood cells are being made, what is draining them out of the system, parasites?

I suggest taking a live sheep showing advanced anaemia to a vet for a post mortum diagnosis to answer these questions before anything else.
All the best.

yea good questions
my gut feeling drop off in red blood cells being made

 

[Global ovine]

yea good questions
my gut feeling drop off in red blood cells being made

That would be my 3rd ranked choice if the problem is seen in a group of sheep. But I would rather wait for evidence answering those questions before risk chasing a dead end option.

 

[JD-Kid]

That would be my 3rd ranked choice if the problem is seen in a group of sheep. But I would rather wait for evidence answering those questions before risk chasing a dead end option.

bonebreaking low copper in poorer ewes thinner bone walls weakness in growth plates on major leg bones
but. there is older papers showing low copper in cows during bigger worm out breaks can't recall the year but carter were dieing out here there was a paper from lincon or canty uni about it.

 

[Global ovine]

You live in a region of extreme variations in soil types. No soil map in in NZ is so variable on such a small scale, therefore generalisations cannot be made because of the region in which you farm.
Some expert may be able to determine a link with copper deficiency and anaemia, but if its bad enough to kill cattle with worms and documented, I'm sure that knowledge can be found. Your vet is the logical starting point.

 

[JD-Kid]

You live in a region of extreme variations in soil types. No soil map in in NZ is so variable on such a small scale, therefore generalisations cannot be made because of the region in which you farm.
Some expert may be able to determine a link with copper deficiency and anaemia, but if its bad enough to kill cattle with worms and documented, I'm sure that knowledge can be found. Your vet is the logical starting point.

yea it's a hard one best ewes high copper poor ewes low yet low copper in grass and soil even the guys at the liver testing outfit can't. work out why
the cattle thing I think it was around 1974 was a very wet year by all accounts maybe a combo of worms copper immune systems put to the test. along with stress
local vets not realy up on local stuff too much as both imports so only seeing. current events not realy got the older seen this before
there was a run on broken legs a few years ago on a few farms in area mostly out of crossbreed types not many out of pure breeds
I do know a very good vet that used to work for coopers and come from SA. had dealings with the IDF studs over there when I said to her about broken bones she was not surprised as common over there
I did ask her why the bloke next door did not have probs in rom's seems most adaptive breed to lower minerals where other breeds may show up signs
there was trials on broken bones mostly put down to a imbalance of Ca/P but strange thing was not showing up a huge imbalance in feeds mind you a ship can sink with a lot of small holes in it

 

[NZDan]

not ment to have barbers pole in the South Island but I would not discount it bit more common in the north island
across the board weight loss in most cases
had a few more drys in 2 tooths and think they aborted very early so thinking a drop in oxygen some how and closer to lambing older ewes born 2011-2014 more at risk of showing signs

Quite a bit of Barbers pool about these days in the SI. Even in southland.

 

[JD-Kid]

Quite a bit of Barbers pool about these days in the SI. Even in southland.

to be fair I think there is a lot more stuff. kicking about. with changes in the seasons and higher temps