Are staffs bull terrier classed as dangerous breed?

[CopperBeech]

Another child killing bull dog type thing out on the prowl tonight

 

[traineefarmer]

Most in this thread have announced themselves as dog lovers and experienced dog owners, yet the argument of breed vs owner or nature vs nurture still stands unresolved.

I am not a dog owner or lover. Past bad experiences have left me with an intense dislike of them, big or small. I'm a cat lover, which puts me in the category of bond villains and creepy loners.

My thoughts on this is that the answer is licences for pet ownership. Dogs, cats, hamsters, snakes; whilst they are not all dangerous, they can all be neglected and mistreated. A license, the application for which takes into account your background, living circumstances and any previous welfare or public endangerment issues would reduce the crazy situation we have currently and bring benefits to public safety and animal cruelty.

I'm no fan of regulation, but as farmers we face scrutiny at every level as to how we look after our stock. It should be fair that domestic animal owners take their share of responsibility and scrutiny.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Most in this thread have announced themselves as dog lovers and experienced dog owners, yet the argument of breed vs owner or nature vs nurture still stands unresolved.

I am not a dog owner or lover. Past bad experiences have left me with an intense dislike of them, big or small. I'm a cat lover, which puts me in the category of bond villains and creepy loners.

My thoughts on this is that the answer is licences for pet ownership. Dogs, cats, hamsters, snakes; whilst they are not all dangerous, they can all be neglected and mistreated. A license, the application for which takes into account your background, living circumstances and any previous welfare or public endangerment issues would reduce the crazy situation we have currently and bring benefits to public safety and animal cruelty.

I'm no fan of regulation, but as farmers we face scrutiny at every level as to how we look after our stock. It should be fair that domestic animal owners take their share of responsibility and scrutiny.

please no more regulation, the state seems to want to regulate every aspect of life as it is, and reduce everyone to a childlike state unable to take any decision without the state giving permission!

 

[traineefarmer]

please no more regulation, the state seems to want to regulate every aspect of life as it is, and reduce everyone to a childlike state unable to take any decision without the state giving permission!

I'd like to agree, but the nanny state has a 40 year head start in removing everyone's personal responsibility, so how can we reset things?

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I'd like to agree, but the nanny state has a 40 year head start in removing everyone's personal responsibility, so how can we reset things?

I have no idea, but it needs to be done

 

[Gulli]

Most in this thread have announced themselves as dog lovers and experienced dog owners, yet the argument of breed vs owner or nature vs nurture still stands unresolved.

I am not a dog owner or lover. Past bad experiences have left me with an intense dislike of them, big or small. I'm a cat lover, which puts me in the category of bond villains and creepy loners.

My thoughts on this is that the answer is licences for pet ownership. Dogs, cats, hamsters, snakes; whilst they are not all dangerous, they can all be neglected and mistreated. A license, the application for which takes into account your background, living circumstances and any previous welfare or public endangerment issues would reduce the crazy situation we have currently and bring benefits to public safety and animal cruelty.

I'm no fan of regulation, but as farmers we face scrutiny at every level as to how we look after our stock. It should be fair that domestic animal owners take their share of responsibility and scrutiny.

I love dogs and cats and various other animals that don't include pigs and I totally agree. Everytime I mention it though everyone says it's a ridiculous idea

 

[CopperBeech]

I love dogs and cats and various other animals that don't include pigs and I totally agree. Everytime I mention it though everyone says it's a ridiculous idea

I can deffo see some merits in it ...... but frankly I don’t like the idea. The issue is, as usual, it would be legislating against those who are capable to protect those who are incapable from themselves.

If there was such a law and it was perhaps attached to the person in general - ie yea you can do what you like or no you can’t, it might be ok, but having to apply for a license for each dog you own ? I wouldn’t be allowed to keep what I have in my kennels, no chance! And why should I not if there is no harm to anyone else etc?

it would just be another level of control.

On a side note - what about licensing cats ? Massive killers of song birds which are in decline which folk buy as a pet abs basically release into the countryside to go where they want and do what they like!

 

[Dry Rot]

Although I was shocked when I read it, I think Scotland has gone down the correct road in putting the maximum fine for livestock worrying up to £40,000. I didn't believe it at first, but that is the maximum and the courts don't have to apply the maximum unless it is mandatory. That is going to concentrate a lot of minds.

 

[Gulli]

I can deffo see some merits in it ...... but frankly I don’t like the idea. The issue is, as usual, it would be legislating against those who are capable to protect those who are incapable from themselves.

If there was such a law and it was perhaps attached to the person in general - ie yea you can do what you like or no you can’t, it might be ok, but having to apply for a license for each dog you own ? I wouldn’t be allowed to keep what I have in my kennels, no chance! And why should I not if there is no harm to anyone else etc?

it would just be another level of control.

On a side note - what about licensing cats ? Massive killers of song birds which are in decline which folk buy as a pet abs basically release into the countryside to go where they want and do what they like!

View attachment 1025034

Yes cats too and reptiles and hamsters etc. I don't particularly like the idea of pets as a whole to be honest, I have a rehomed terrapin and a couple of working dogs, most pets don't get the chance to express their natural behaviours and I don't think it's fair to buy a pet for the kids or as a status symbol or for various other reasons, but at the same time I can see why people do it for companionship.

I'm fairly conflicted in my opinions on it but I don't think just anyone should be allowed a pet because they want one

 

[Courier]

Harnesses to train a dog ??
Needs to learn with a small link loose running “choke” chain giving a short sharp warning….

 

[MRT]

No dog with "bull" in the title should be left around children. Deed not breed is fine but when a child is killed it nearly always is a something bull and that needs recognising. There is a huge difference in threat level between dogs that nip or bite when triggered and dogs that bite and hang on until there is no further stimulation.
Its akin to leaving a mantrap on your sofa with your toddlers but leaving the safety catch on.

 

[Dry Rot]

I'm not too keen on most humans but I don't suppose I'll get very far trying to get them banned!

Looks like another case against pit bulls but still not banned in the USA.

Woman has both arms amputated and colon removed after horror dog attack

Woman’s sisters want dogs’ owner to be held accountable

www.independent.co.uk

 

[MRT]

please no more regulation, the state seems to want to regulate every aspect of life as it is, and reduce everyone to a childlike state unable to take any decision without the state giving permission!

Reality check is needed rather than regulation. Nobody would leave a child playing in the bull pen, even though the bull is as quiet as can be, a real pet. But many will pen thier child with a dog bred to kill said bull (or die trying) because like the quiet bull it likes a scratch and has never shown aggression.
I have several heartwarming anecdotes where staffies have been to see me having killed another dog they are homed with. Usually the offender is a bitch and 2-3 years old. Whether triggered by a toy, food, space, hormones it doesn't matter if they go they go and they do not stop until the thing they are killing is dead which is just not appropriate company for children.

 

[2wheels]

I don’t entirely buy into the whole ‘it’s not the breed, it’s the owners fault’

some breeds have been bred for decades/centuries to be capably dangerous, strong powerful dogs with massive heads and a powerful bite with massive potential for aggression, these traits are not at all required by pets, and are dangerous.

It’s like saying that a grenade is completely safe……as long as no one pulls the pin!

Nah, grenades and certain dogs are always potentially dangerous, deadly even.

This dog was only bought last week, I’m sure these folk were told it wasn’t dangerous, absolutely tragic

Dog bought a week ago kills girl at home - BBC News

The dog that attacked 17-month-old Bella-Rae Birch in St Helens was killed by police.

www.bbc.co.uk

How many border collies are involved in stories like this? None, always a pit bull/staffy etc

nah, collies sneak round behind you take a nip and run.

 

[CopperBeech]

Reality check is needed rather than regulation. Nobody would leave a child playing in the bull pen, even though the bull is as quiet as can be, a real pet. But many will pen thier child with a dog bred to kill said bull (or die trying) because like the quiet bull it likes a scratch and has never shown aggression.
I have several heartwarming anecdotes where staffies have been to see me having killed another dog they are homed with. Usually the offender is a bitch and 2-3 years old. Whether triggered by a toy, food, space, hormones it doesn't matter if they go they go and they do not stop until the thing they are killing is dead which is just not appropriate company for children.

I’ll qualify what I said earlier on. I wouldn’t leave any dog alone with a child and to be fair am not a fan of any dog being up close and personal face close to a kid.

But there are certainly some dogs which can inflict a lot of damage very quickly. To be fair there wouldn’t be much left of a child if a Mali or a rotty or a shepherd piled into one.

Bull breeds have certain attributes, and their jaw power and tenacity are one of them. That is a useful thing in many ways and they can make great working dogs and also great companions.

I would happily trust mine in the garden with kids under supervision, but would I leave a kid unsupervised or let a small toddler go prancing round with them ..... no chance !

The issue is it’s mostly - bull breeds attract idiots, that’s a simple fact, and that is a recipe for disaster when kids are involved.

With regard to dog aggression, the biggest issue I find is not them starting it, but their ability to finish it. I was in the vets this morning with one of mine - 28 kilos of muscle, and a little old Russel owned by an old lady was screaming on the lead to pile into him, she just scowled it and everyone laughed. If it had been the other way round everyone would have said that I had a dangerous dog. And if the Russel had grabbed hold and attacked mine and my dog had crushed the life out of it, it would also be a case of my dog being the bad dog. As it was he just looked perplexed and wagged his tail.

I just like bull type dogs and accept their characteristics and know how to handle them. There for I don’t really see that I should have the dog labelled dangerous, over another ‘safe’ breed that is a twit.

 

[ajcc]

Well I just learnt what a break stick is and how to use it. Every days a learning day,

 

[MRT]

I’ll qualify what I said earlier on. I wouldn’t leave any dog alone with a child and to be fair am not a fan of any dog being up close and personal face close to a kid.

But there are certainly some dogs which can inflict a lot of damage very quickly. To be fair there wouldn’t be much left of a child if a Mali or a rotty or a shepherd piled into one.

Bull breeds have certain attributes, and their jaw power and tenacity are one of them. That is a useful thing in many ways and they can make great working dogs and also great companions.

I would happily trust mine in the garden with kids under supervision, but would I leave a kid unsupervised or let a small toddler go prancing round with them ..... no chance !

The issue is it’s mostly - bull breeds attract idiots, that’s a simple fact, and that is a recipe for disaster when kids are involved.

With regard to dog aggression, the biggest issue I find is not them starting it, but their ability to finish it. I was in the vets this morning with one of mine - 28 kilos of muscle, and a little old Russel owned by an old lady was screaming on the lead to pile into him, she just scowled it and everyone laughed. If it had been the other way round everyone would have said that I had a dangerous dog. And if the Russel had grabbed hold and attacked mine and my dog had crushed the life out of it, it would also be a case of my dog being the bad dog. As it was he just looked perplexed and wagged his tail.

I just like bull type dogs and accept their characteristics and know how to handle them. There for I don’t really see that I should have the dog labelled dangerous, over another ‘safe’ breed that is a twit. View attachment 1025180View attachment 1025181View attachment 1025182View attachment 1025183View attachment 1025184View attachment 1025185

Its appropriate, yours are mainly crossed with extremely (even hormonaly) docile breeds, trained, kennelled and not left with children. The tragic cases are usually pure bull, not trained, live on the bed/sofa and left with children.

As you say it is the desire to finish a fight that is the problem, not the tools to do it. The bull types once started don't stop until the opponent is dead. The collie nips and lets go, GSD tells you hes not happy then escalates level by level until you get the message, the JRT is a general AH, Rotty flips his lid for 10 seconds then says sorry, the bulls are totally stoic until they go and they don't stop.
I don't think bans by breed are helpful as they don't work. I do think there needs to be a recognition that under 12s should not be around them unsupervised going on the tragic record rather than the deed not breed or its always the owners fault messages which shift responsibility from every individual and dog to some bad other person and dog.

 

[CopperBeech]

 

[Dry Rot]

View attachment 1025406View attachment 1025407

Cute pictures! But I can't help but point out that a dog may behave perfectly at home while being a rabid killer over the fence. That comment is not aimed at CopperBeech (who I am sure knows these facts) but at the many who believe their dogs are little angels all of the time regardless. (My neighbour, for one! He is now enlightened and partially trained).

I kept a pet hare in a pack of hounds and it was quite safe while I was there. I never tried leaving it there while I went away so I can't say for sure what the outcome would have been -- I can only guess!

There is also a things called 'threshold' and 'instinct'. In this sort of situation, matters might be different if the dog has learnt that lamb tastes nice, they are fun to chase and kill, and especially so when you are hungry!

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Cute pictures! But I can't help but point out that a dog may behave perfectly at home while being a rabid killer over the fence. That comment is not aimed at CopperBeech (who I am sure knows these facts) but at the many who believe their dogs are little angels all of the time regardless. (My neighbour, for one! He is now enlightened and partially trained).

I kept a pet hare in a pack of hounds and it was quite safe while I was there. I never tried leaving it there while I went away so I can't say for sure what the outcome would have been -- I can only guess!

There is also a things called 'threshold' and 'instinct'. In this sort of situation, matters might be different if the dog has learnt that lamb tastes nice, they are fun to chase and kill, and especially so when you are hungry!

and two dogs together "egg" each other on, as well.