Blackmailed by my local doctor's surgery

[Red Fred]

I took my rifle license in to the surgery a couple of weeks ago and they wanted £40, which I guess is fair enough, but there didn't seem to be any issues from the GP with getting it signed. Still haven't had it back yet, though.

 

[farmerm]

I took my rifle license in to the surgery a couple of weeks ago and they wanted £40, which I guess is fair enough, but there didn't seem to be any issues from the GP with getting it signed. Still haven't had it back yet, though.

Police guidance suggests it take about 30min of GP time to complete.. My local practice must cover at least a couple of hundred license holders, the GPs must be delighted at the extra work to fill their otherwise boring and empty days. The police certainly seem to be under the impression that GPs are able to return the form quick... or they just don't care either way

 

[Kidds]

Police guidance suggests it take about 30min of GP time to complete.. My local practice must cover at least a couple of hundred license holders, the GPs must be delighted at the extra work to fill their otherwise boring and empty days. The police certainly seem to be under the impression that GPs are able to return the form quick... or they just don't care either way

Question 1. Do you know of any medical reason why the above named should not be deemed fit to own/use a firearm? Please answer yes or no.

End of form.

 

[Red Fred]

Question 1. Do you know of any medical reason why the above named should not be deemed fit to own/use a firearm? Please answer yes or no.

End of form.

I reckon they have to have a good rummage through your records just to cover their backsides if something goes wrong.

 

[roscoe erf]

I reckon they have to have a good rummage through your records just to cover their backsides if something goes wrong.

Well that won’t take long

 

[GarMan]

Appears to be just another 'transfer of risk' and a new hurdle to make it difficult to maintain working tools.

There are also Medcert (£60) or Firearms Medical Reports (£50) who does this for you as there are some GPs who seems to refuse to provide any sort of documenation.

 

[Dry Rot]

If you are in the surgery on another matter, could you not ask the Dr to sign at the same time?

 

[betweenthelines]

I wouldn't be surprised if the GP's insurers are a bit nervous about what their client puts his name to.

I can image a Doctor getting sued if he signs someone as fit to hold a firearm, who later goes on a rampage.

 

[GarMan]

I wouldn't be surprised if the GP's insurers are a bit nervous about what their client puts his name to.

I can image a Doctor getting sued if he signs someone as fit to hold a firearm, who later goes on a rampage.

Doubt if the GP is expected to sign off the risk to that level if all they ask is "Do you know of any medical reason why the above named should not be deemed fit to own/use a firearm? " I believe its more to do with depression, anxiety, domestic violence etc to ensure that there's an added level of check, probably more paperwork than anything else in my view.

 

[betweenthelines]

Anyone whinging about it being difficult to get a firearms Certificate should really think about last night's news from Plymouth

 

[betweenthelines]

Police have confirmed that the murderer held a valid shotgun certificate.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Police have confirmed that the murderer held a valid shotgun certificate.

Very pertinent to this thread. I wonder what his doctor made of his last renewal?

The media are claiming he'd posted some alarming stuff on social media recently too.

Deeply sad.

 

[Highland Mule]

Very pertinent to this thread. I wonder what his doctor made of his last renewal?

The media are claiming he'd posted some alarming stuff on social media recently too.

Deeply sad.

Not only his doctor but also the referees - how would they feel if they given him a recent clean bill of sanity?

Tragic situation though, so best not speculate and just let the authorities do their job.

 

[milkloss]

I would be prepared to pay a reasonable fee to the GP at renewal if it included 6monthly 'pings' to the firearms department acknowledging any change in circumstance.

 

[Kidds]

Anyone whinging about it being difficult to get a firearms Certificate should really think about last night's news from Plymouth

The thread is about doctors charging so much for the letter, not how difficult it is to get a firearm.
I have not seen a doctor in nearly 20 years, how can a doctor possibly say I am suitable to have a firearm or not, they don't even know me. The letter means sod all.

The incident in Plymouth is an absolute tragedy but hardly proves a letter off a doctor for £50 is going to make a difference.

 

[betweenthelines]

The thread is about doctors charging so much for the letter, not how difficult it is to get a firearm.
I have not seen a doctor in nearly 20 years, how can a doctor possibly say I am suitable to have a firearm or not, they don't even know me. The letter means sod all.

The incident in Plymouth is an absolute tragedy but hardly proves a letter off a doctor for £50 is going to make a difference.

This case will increase the pressure on GP's to properly consider what they say when a patient asks for a Shotgun Certificate letter. Perhaps the ones who charge more, do so because they take it more seriously. Surely it's in the interest of all responsible gun owners to encourage more, not less, control and vetting?

5 minutes on the internet and you can find Doctors who will provide a letter and GUARANTEE no face-to-face appointment-how ridiculous is that

You should need to see a Doctor in person at least every 5 years.

This murderer was only 22 so must have been granted a cert. in the last few years.

Also there need to be more questions asked about how a guy who (presumably) lives in the middle of a large city can justify a "need" for a shotgun.

I think TFF and it's users should also be mote cautious about the "free pest control" fraternity that pop up regularly asking for permission to shoot? What's to stop one of these guys using an email from a farmer giving permission to shot over his land as a "reason" for obtaining a Licence-does anyone ever ask to see a firearms certificate before they give permission?

 

[TechWise]

This case will increase the pressure on GP's to properly consider what they say when a patient asks for a Shotgun Certificate letter. Perhaps the ones who charge more, do so because they take it more seriously. Surely it's in the interest of all responsible gun owners to encourage more, not less, control and vetting?

5 minutes on the internet and you can find Doctors who will provide a letter and GUARANTEE no face-to-face appointment-how ridiculous is that

You should need to see a Doctor in person at least every 5 years.

This murderer was only 22 so must have been granted a cert. in the last few years.

Also there need to be more questions asked about how a guy who (presumably) lives in the middle of a large city can justify a "need" for a shotgun.

I think TFF and it's users should also be mote cautious about the "free pest control" fraternity that pop up regularly asking for permission to shoot? What's to stop one of these guys using an email from a farmer giving permission to shot over his land as a "reason" for obtaining a Licence-does anyone ever ask to see a firearms certificate before they give permission?

If all doctors turned around and said "we're not willing to do this because we're not trained psychological profilers", then I would actually support them. It would put the ball back in the government's court and force them to adopt some sort of proper evaluation or screening process, carried out by people actually trained to spot warning signs. However, I think it totally undermines that argument when GPs say "we're not trained to do it, BUT if you give us £50 we'll do it anyway".

It's not surprising that doctors online are willing to do it without a face-to-face. They're no more or no less qualified to do it than a family GP. As you observe, if you haven't seen your doctor for years, what else can they do but have a quick flick through your file looking for mental illness then sign on the dotted line. If you turn it into a business by charging a fee, then the natural result is that some other doctor thinks "I could flick through the very same file, come to the same conclusion and do it for £10 less". I consider myself lucky that my GP took £25, but in the case of a friend who was quoted £150, it's hardly surprising he went looking elsewhere.

As to the point about "needing" a shotgun, I'd tend to agree with you. However, as a point of law, there's no requirement to demonstrate "need" to own a shotgun on a shotgun certificate, and the onus is on the police to prove that you shouldn't have it. That being said, if it was a large magazine capacity shotgun held on an FAC, then yes, you would need good reason. As I understand it, many police forces are very reluctant to dish out high capacity shotguns and it could be a result of this that all forces take that stance and they become very difficult to obtain. In extremis, if it's found to be an ordinary shotgun held on an SGC, really the only avenue left is to scrap SGCs and make everything a section 1 firearm that needs to be justified. The admin burden alone of that would surely be astronomical.

Your final point about the "free pest control brigade" is a valid one, but it's also a double edged sword. I've made a point of taking a few friends for a day at the clays, the logic being that the more people who have enjoyed a day's shooting and realise how safe and fun it can be, the less public support there is for drastic knee-jerk legislation. There's a certain strength in numbers to be had by allowing others to indulge their hobby, bearing in mind that the vast majority are above board. From a selfish standpoint, my concern is that they leave the licencing mostly alone and ban semi-autos and pump actions altogether and without compensation (ScotGov has arguably set a precedent here by licencing air weapons without compensation arrangements). I hold a £700 semi-auto on my SGC.

 

[toquark]

Absolutely tragic, and like all of these incidents, this individual sent up some very obvious and public red flags, and still was granted a shotgun licence.

Lessons will be learned im sure

 

[Filthyfarmer]

Even the police get miss led from within their own ranks, they missed the murdering met officer earlier this year.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Even the police get miss led from within their own ranks, they missed the murdering met officer earlier this year.

And don't forget the absolute mess that was the process around Thomas Hamilton having his FAC renewed for his pistols before going on to commit the Dunblaine attrocity.