Blackmailed by my local doctor's surgery

[roscoe erf]

If all that is true then serious arse kicking is needed not a knee jerk response to punish law abiding sane licence holders

that won't happen the law abiding will pay

 

[steveR]

that won't happen the law abiding will pay

Sadly, this appears the case far too often.

 

[Princess Pooper]

What we're missing here, in this terrible and tragic event, is that it's a 'one-off', not the norm, the most loss of life by a single perpetrator by a firearm for more than 10 years - and that should prove that the restrictions on us public needing or wanting a shotgun or rifle, whether for vermin control or sport, do work - we have one of the toughest application procedures in the world and thankfully, incidents like last night are incredibly rare

Last year, a friend of mine started suffering from mental health issues; depression, catastrophisation, insomnia - the works. He went from a bouncy, successful business owner to a recluse in a matter of months. (He's much better now and well on the recovery road). However, had I vouched for this man, either for a shotgun cert or FAC (he has none) then I would have been worried, worried to the extent that I would have talked to him first and then if necessary to the police if he had held some firearms.

As rare as it is, I think that those asked to 'countersign' applications may do so, rather like an MOT on a vehicle, saying that to the best of their knowledge and that 'on the day' when asked, then it's good to go and he or she is ok. I wonder how many solicitors, directors, accountants etc that we all ask to do this, really have an ongoing interest in our welfare e.g. our accountant that countersigned my Cert and then my FAC, we no longer use. He has retired and I have not spoken to him for perhaps two years. Ok, I have almost a year to go until renewal when I will use someone else of course but I wonder how many of these 'referees' have any ongoing interest on how we are and would ever make a judgement to change their opinion if they see a problem

All my dealings with our Firearms Department are polite yet robust. I can't see what more can be done?
I passed my driving test many moons ago but that accreditation doesn't stop me running down a bus queue if I suddenly 'flipped'

It is a tragedy and particularly after having his Cert revoked temporarily, maybe that's where the real problem lies...

HK

I used to get asked to sign certificates when I was an accountant (they are not so fussy now) and I once discretely refused someone because I knew that the chap suffered from depression, this was in the days before the GP was routinely consulted for a renewal.

I have also had someone's revoked (anonymously) as he suffers from paranoia, and has delusions, this was also pre-GP consult (the onus used to be on the licence holders to disclose any mental health issues). I wrote to his GP who had no idea he had a licence, they then wrote to the Police with their concerns. I was also concerned as he also never used to put his gun out of sight, let alone lock it away, plus never bothered to lock his doors at night.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I used to get asked to sign certificates when I was an accountant (they are not so fussy now) and I once discretely refused someone because I knew that the chap suffered from depression, this was in the days before the GP was routinely consulted for a renewal.

I have also had someone's revoked (anonymously) as he suffers from paranoia, and has delusions, this was also pre-GP consult (the onus used to be on the licence holders to disclose any mental health issues). I wrote to his GP who had no idea he had a licence, they then wrote to the Police with their concerns. I was also concerned as he also never used to put his gun out of sight, let alone lock it away, plus never bothered to lock his doors at night.

Good in you for doing so. That's the system working as it should.

 

[HolzKopf]

I used to get asked to sign certificates when I was an accountant (they are not so fussy now) and I once discretely refused someone because I knew that the chap suffered from depression, this was in the days before the GP was routinely consulted for a renewal.

I have also had someone's revoked (anonymously) as he suffers from paranoia, and has delusions, this was also pre-GP consult (the onus used to be on the licence holders to disclose any mental health issues). I wrote to his GP who had no idea he had a licence, they then wrote to the Police with their concerns. I was also concerned as he also never used to put his gun out of sight, let alone lock it away, plus never bothered to lock his doors at night.

God in you for doing so. That's the system working as it should.

Yes well done, glad you had the mettle to do what you did

Personally I've never sought a reference from someone who only knows me in a business capacity. It has always been someone suitable but who has some knowledge of me as a person, the family, our surroundings and to some extent my views. It must be a tough ask for some, those not as resilient or thoughtful as @Princess Pooper

HK

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Looks like he was a loony (obvious) that had his guns removed due to an assault allegation (September last year) sent on an anger management course and given his guns back a month ago.
Also said to have been reported to NHS and the Police that he was unstable.
Went by the name Professor Waffle on Youtube and had posted some "disturbing" videos.

I am very unsure of the efficacy of anger management courses myself, and think at best they are just a money making provision for anger management course providers or a way to stop getting a harsher sentence. Real management of theses issues is a much deeper process.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I am very unsure of the efficacy of anger management courses myself, and think at best they are just a money making provision for anger management course providers or a way to stop getting a harsher sentence. Real management of theses issues is a much deeper process.

Much like speed awareness courses....

Work for some, a get-out for others.

 

[steveR]

Much like speed awareness courses....

Work for some, a get-out for others.

Thought just the same... Don't even have to go to a centre now, all done from home!

 

[Christoph1945]

Looks like he was a loony (obvious)

It is quite conspicuous that he was a man with big mental health problems and he went untreated and was allowed to regain his shotgun and pemit. Some would say that most suicides are committed by similar such men but they don't normally take innocents with them; or do they?

I'm all for psychological profiling of all fire arms certificate ( & shotgun ) applicants; including police officers and nuclear security officers.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

The problem is would a mental health professional ever sign off someone as safe to regain their FAC or SGC after a bout of mental health problems? It would be professionally safer and easier to hedge one's bets and say they still retained a risk of relapse which would result in never getting one's licence back. But for this, the best approach would be to require an independent professional mental health assessment before the return of firearms following their removal.

How many of us can ever really say we are totally stable?

Wasn't Wayne Couzens (who killed Sarah Everard) a serving Met Police diplomatic protection officer? If so he would have been firearms trained, a regular user and subject to regular screening.

 

[Christoph1945]

Wasn't Wayne Couzens (who killed Sarah Everard) a serving Met Police diplomatic protection officer? If so he would have been firearms trained, a regular user and subject to regular screening.

A very valid point but I can't help wonder if he was.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Yes well done, glad you had the mettle to do what you did

Personally I've never sought a reference from someone who only knows me in a business capacity. It has always been someone suitable but who has some knowledge of me as a person, the family, our surroundings and to some extent my views. It must be a tough ask for some, those not as resilient or thoughtful as @Princess Pooper

HK

I did know them both personally as well i.e. not just through work. If I'd ever been asked by someone 'just through work' I would have refused if I didn't know them well enough. I have a shotgun licence myself so I know the responsibility it entails.

That said, anyone hell bent on doing serious damage has plenty of other means to do it, the most accessible probably being to run a car into a crowd.

 

[Robt]

Presently playing catch-up on this case and found my self ruminating over several thoughts. I believe this guy was something of a weight lifter and I got to wondering if he has been using steroids to boost his weight gaining and body building.

I also once read that certain psychological tests can reveal a person's potential to respond violently to some given circumstances.

Sorry, but don’t judge and assume on what you don’t know. Body builders can do this without steroids . Many do as it’s a great treatment for mental health. So please don’t tar all body builders with same (steroids ) brush

 

[Lofty1984]

Sorry, but don’t judge and assume on what you don’t know. Body builders can do this without steroids . Many do as it’s a great treatment for mental health. So please don’t tar all body builders with same (steroids ) brush

He didn’t assume he wondered

 

[Robt]

He didn’t assume he wondered

Yes, perhaps I reacted. Sorry

 

[Christoph1945]

Yes, perhaps I reacted. Sorry

 

[Turnip]

Reminded me of this one

 

[betweenthelines]

The disturbing thing about the Plymouth case is that if this guy was deemed fit to have a weapon returned after having it confiscated, just how many other potential mass murderers are there who have a weapon?

 

[Christoph1945]

The disturbing thing about the Plymouth case is that if this guy was deemed fit to have a weapon returned after having it confiscated, just how many other potential mass murderers are there who have a weapon?

Plenty behind the wheel of a car!

 

[Grassman]

Seems more than ever we are missing having the local copper who lived locally and could spot things. Years ago he would of kept an eye on someone like this if he was already known to the police.