Blackmailed by my local doctor's surgery

[Lincs Lass]

A double barrel shotgun is one thing but I thought single barrel pump actions were banned years ago ,,they are the weapons of bank robbers or gangland bosses,,not something that can be used for game

 

[davidroberts30]

A double barrel shotgun is one thing but I thought single barrel pump actions were banned years ago ,,they are the weapons of bank robbers or gangland bosses,,not something that can be used for game

can have a 3 shot pump or semi auto on a shotgun cert
any more shots needs a sec1

 

[Lofty1984]

Looks like it was a pump shotgun

 

[X344chap]

The thread is about doctors charging so much for the letter, not how difficult it is to get a firearm.
I have not seen a doctor in nearly 20 years, how can a doctor possibly say I am suitable to have a firearm or not, they don't even know me. The letter means sod all.

The incident in Plymouth is an absolute tragedy but hardly proves a letter off a doctor for £50 is going to make a difference.

They are not asking the doctor whether they think you should have a firearm but whether you have any medical condition that the police officer needs to consider as part of their enquiries. The police decide.

 

[Kidds]

Looks like he was a loony (obvious) that had his guns removed due to an assault allegation (September last year) sent on an anger management course and given his guns back a month ago.
Also said to have been reported to NHS and the Police that he was unstable.
Went by the name Professor Waffle on Youtube and had posted some "disturbing" videos.

 

[Lofty1984]

Looks like he was a loony (obvious) that had his guns removed due to an assault allegation (September last year) sent on an anger management course and given his guns back a month ago.
Also said to have been reported to NHS and the Police that he was unstable.
Went by the name Professor Waffle on Youtube and had posted some "disturbing" videos.

If all that is true then serious arse kicking is needed not a knee jerk response to punish law abiding sane licence holders

 

[Swarfmonkey]

A raving nutjob that had their firearms removed, but then handed back to them. What does that remind me of? Oh yeah, Hamilton. Plod took his firearms off him, yet they were returned on the orders of a senior officer (overruling the FLM).

 

[HolzKopf]

What we're missing here, in this terrible and tragic event, is that it's a 'one-off', not the norm, the most loss of life by a single perpetrator by a firearm for more than 10 years - and that should prove that the restrictions on us public needing or wanting a shotgun or rifle, whether for vermin control or sport, do work - we have one of the toughest application procedures in the world and thankfully, incidents like last night are incredibly rare

Last year, a friend of mine started suffering from mental health issues; depression, catastrophisation, insomnia - the works. He went from a bouncy, successful business owner to a recluse in a matter of months. (He's much better now and well on the recovery road). However, had I vouched for this man, either for a shotgun cert or FAC (he has none) then I would have been worried, worried to the extent that I would have talked to him first and then if necessary to the police if he had held some firearms.

As rare as it is, I think that those asked to 'countersign' applications may do so, rather like an MOT on a vehicle, saying that to the best of their knowledge and that 'on the day' when asked, then it's good to go and he or she is ok. I wonder how many solicitors, directors, accountants etc that we all ask to do this, really have an ongoing interest in our welfare e.g. our accountant that countersigned my Cert and then my FAC, we no longer use. He has retired and I have not spoken to him for perhaps two years. Ok, I have almost a year to go until renewal when I will use someone else of course but I wonder how many of these 'referees' have any ongoing interest on how we are and would ever make a judgement to change their opinion if they see a problem

All my dealings with our Firearms Department are polite yet robust. I can't see what more can be done?
I passed my driving test many moons ago but that accreditation doesn't stop me running down a bus queue if I suddenly 'flipped'

It is a tragedy and particularly after having his Cert revoked temporarily, maybe that's where the real problem lies...

HK

 

[Lofty1984]

What we're missing here, in this terrible and tragic event, is that it's a 'one-off', not the norm, the most loss of life by a single perpetrator by a firearm for more than 10 years - and that should prove that the restrictions on us public needing or wanting a shotgun or rifle, whether for vermin control or sport, do work - we have one of the toughest application procedures in the world and thankfully, incidents like last night are incredibly rare

Last year, a friend of mine started suffering from mental health issues; depression, catastrophisation, insomnia - the works. He went from a bouncy, successful business owner to a recluse in a matter of months. (He's much better now and well on the recovery road). However, had I vouched for this man, either for a shotgun cert or FAC (he has none) then I would have been worried, worried to the extent that I would have talked to him first and then if necessary to the police if he had held some firearms.

As rare as it is, I think that those asked to 'countersign' applications may do so, rather like an MOT on a vehicle, saying that to the best of their knowledge and that 'on the day' when asked, then it's good to go and he or she is ok. I wonder how many solicitors, directors, accountants etc that we all ask to do this, really have an ongoing interest in our welfare e.g. our accountant that countersigned my Cert and then my FAC, we no longer use. He has retired and I have not spoken to him for perhaps two years. Ok, I have almost a year to go until renewal when I will use someone else of course but I wonder how many of these 'referees' have any ongoing interest on how we are and would ever make a judgement to change their opinion if they see a problem

All my dealings with our Firearms Department are polite yet robust. I can't see what more can be done?
I passed my driving test many moons ago but that accreditation doesn't stop me running down a bus queue if I suddenly 'flipped'

It is a tragedy and particularly after having his Cert revoked temporarily, maybe that's where the real problem lies...

HK

Your last paragraph sums it up

 

[Kidds]

If all that is true then serious arse kicking is needed not a knee jerk response to punish law abiding sane licence holders

I can't say if it is true but suspect it is.

 

[puppet]

Thomas Hamilton was not convicted of anything but was known to be weird. At that time the police had to obey the rules but after him they could just remove the firearm on the basis of their concerns, hence if you come to their attention then you may have your guns removed.
Might be seeing more of that now.

 

[X344chap]

On the one hand folks are complaining about the costs and the hoops they have to go through to get a firearm or shotgun certificate and on the other about police being too lenient and not removing guns from folks. The police can only operate within the bounds of the law and being weird is not illegal or necessarily grounds for removing guns. If the police then go on a vendetta and try to find grounds to remove guns based on hunches then we end up with the situation that dry rot found himself in.

 

[sidjon]

A double barrel shotgun is one thing but I thought single barrel pump actions were banned years ago ,,they are the weapons of bank robbers or gangland bosses,,not something that can be used for game

Mostly used for water fowl and pigeons, have got a semi auto myself and use it for ducks Mostly

 

[puppet]

The questions for your GP or referee are not about legal issues but trying to work out what sort of person you are. Impulsive overdoses, signed off due to stress, relationship issues, alcohol or medication. The police now work under guidance not strict laws.
So if you punch your neighbour when he hits you with a stick you may have guns removed though innocent of a crime.

 

[TheTallGuy]

I'm increasingly coming to the opinion that, as inconvenient as it would be, shotguns should be treated the same as firearms - in that you should have to justify being allowed to keep them.

 

[Wilksy]

Just my two pen’ith, police didn’t contact my referee at application or renewals, nor did I have to pay GP (last year and shotgun only) two pcso’s delivered new cert and checked serial numbers, I have heard of police watching social media and pulling folk who are posting too much about shooting/owning guns

 

[Christoph1945]

Presently playing catch-up on this case and found my self ruminating over several thoughts. I believe this guy was something of a weight lifter and I got to wondering if he has been using steroids to boost his weight gaining and body building.

I also once read that certain psychological tests can reveal a person's potential to respond violently to some given circumstances.

 

[HolzKopf]

I'm increasingly coming to the opinion that, as inconvenient as it would be, shotguns should be treated the same as firearms - in that you should have to justify being allowed to keep them.

I think your view has some merit. Justification should be (is?) a need. i.e. vermin control (for landowners / employees, contractors), or a sport; clays, game, wildfowling, practical etc. The Firearms Officer on a home visit should, from his eyes and brain, be able to take a view on whether the 'need' (or 'want') is justified. An urban, suburban or rural should be a starting point. This should be backed up by an examination of the individual's history with the police (which happens) and also a mandatory medical history check. This should not be a job for 'coercion' of a GP. Many practices are now combined with multiple GPs who have your records on a screen but may never have met you before. Things have moved on. Secure storage of what you have is also a given

It's interesting how the bar is set so much higher for an FAC. Ignoring the AR15 type ownership issues of the US and other countries (issues that generally don't affect us with our licensed firearms restrictions) the results of an accident can still be deadly; stray round, ricochet etc (and that's why land is checked) but they are uncommon. An FAC grant though is currently given more scrutiny. It's no accident that for maximum defence (or damage) at close range, many military branches and some law enforcement use shotguns.

Plymouth is a tragedy and it's right to look at the protocols of the return following confiscation. A centralised Firearms Office may be a consideration but I still say that for the friends, families and communities of the majority of UK licensed holders, they can live without worry or any need for a wholesale change in the system

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I think your view has some merit. Justification should be (is?) a need. i.e. vermin control (for landowners / employees, contractors), or a sport; clays, game, wildfowling, practical etc. The Firearms Officer on a home visit should from his eyes and brain be able to take a view on whether the 'need' (or 'want') is justified. Urban, suburban, rural should be a starting point. This should be backed up by an examination the individual's history with the police (which happens) and also a mandatory medical history check. This should not be a job for coercion of a GP. Many practices are now combined with multiple GPs who have your records on a screen but may never have met you before. Things have moved on. Secure storage of what you have is also a given

It's interesting how the bar is set so much higher for an FAC. Ignoring the AR15 type ownership issues of the US and other countries (issues that generally don't affect us with our licensed firearms restrictions) the results of an accident can still be deadly; stray round, ricochet etc (and that's why land is checked) but they are uncommon. An FAC grant though is currently given more scrutiny. It's no accident that for maximum defence (or damage) at close range, many military branches and some law enforcement use shotguns.

Plymouth is a tragedy and it's right to look at the protocols of the return following confiscation. A centralised Firearms Office may be a consideration but I still say that for the friends, families and communities of the majority of UK licensed holders, they can live without worry or any need for a wholesale change in the system

Agreed.

If this leads to a review of policy then, imho, we rural folk should demand a clear CROSS-PARTY statement of policy regarding private firearm ownership in the UK.

This incident is tragic and looks like it could have been prevented (although he may have killed using other methods based on emerging reports of his mental state). However, since the last UK mass shooting incident many people have died from incidents with illegally held weapons to the point that they are virtually endemic here now. THAT is the big issue for the UK with Firearms, not legally held ones.

 

[Christoph1945]

Depending how the situation in Plymouth is handled by the press and the media in general, there may be a tendency for copycat incidents; the same holds true for conventional suicides.