Cattle tagging regulation change?

[gone up the hill]

Do you lot really think the NFU just decided to roll out a new system and told DEFRA to do it?

CTS is on its knees, it's seriously old tech and pretty much useless. The NFU have been involved in consultation and have put forward members views, mine was one of them, but they can only inform the membership of what government have decided, not dictate to the lawmakers.

Maybe we should abandon technology altogether, hand milking and delivery by horse anyone? That three legged stool looks a bit fancy, you should have stuck with an old stump to sit on...

Do you farm sheep Mo?

Because if you did you would soon experience the fact that Eid tagging is no where near 100% accurate with many tags being unable to be read/ mixed up with other vendors animals etc etc.

Current cattle system is 100% accurate and works very well and the BCMS is certainly not on its last legs.

You were asked Mo by the NFU because they know you would support EID tagging in cattle, just like you did the RT I believe which is now a compete farce and a lot of farmers have either quit or about to quit the RT scheme because its just adding a lot of costs that cannot be recovered beyond the farm gate and Eid tagging will be no different on the cost front!

You wonder sometimes just who the NFU are working for because its not their farmer members most of the time that is for sure going by the RT/ Eid examples!

 

[gone up the hill]

Beef industry is experiencing the lowest prices for some years and the highest costs for some years currently and all the NFU want to do is support even more costs for beef producers that cannot be recovered beyond the farmgate!

 

[mo!]

"CTS is on its knees, it's seriously old tech and pretty much useless."

Really???
In my experience, BCMS / CTS's delivery, communications and accuracy has been a shining light in the farce that is gov.uk's dalliances with new technology.

As I understand it the system is almost full, it would cost a huge amount to add capacity and the base technology is not being supported. As for accuracy, there are something like a million incorrect data points, it is hopeless. It is nigh on impossible to pull useful information out as the processing power isn't there. It's just old and worn out.

 

[mo!]

How is it on its knees? It works and works bloody well afaik. Staff as a rule are only too happy to help and sort your query with ease.

You think a computer system that needs staff is a good one?

 

[gatepost]

It all sounds wonderful! however back in the real world, today I'm replacing cattle tags all bought in from different sources, every beast from 2 places need at least 1 tag, half way through typing this, my comp or the site froze, the reader I have and it's programme have not proven to be reliable enough to continue using and my annual sheep replacement tag bill has become a joke, some need to be replaced with original no due to trial work, I have now changed tag maker. and at my age although no luddite I find getting to grips with the latest swipe left or right more boring than fun.

 

[gone up the hill]

You think a computer system that needs staff is a good one?

All computer systems need staff / phone lines for people to call and speak to someone if they need help/ have a problem etc and an Eid tagging system will be just the same!

Or are you really saying that an Eid tagging system/ records will be 100% accurate and farmers/ markets etc wont have any problems with the tags/ updating info etc??

 

[S J H]

Haven't posted for a while, but I thought I better had.

@Guy Smith i was a member of the regional livestock board. I left the nfu because of this matter. You're right the vast majority of 'active' members want this, but they're the members in my opinion, that would be very good at using this sort of system.

I think that a system where medical records are updated with the movements is a very good idea, mostly because the TB and vaccination history will be with the animal and not in a book in someone's desk. But I don't see the need to link this with EID. This could have been inputed in the same system as present.

You are most welcome to visit my place, and help re tag my cows.

My major problem with EID, is the retention rates. We started using it a few years ago, but gave up, as the tags are far too heavy for calves, therefore they fall through the ear. I raised this issue multiple times, and no one gave me a response.

One main tag manufacturer in the country admitted this problem to me, when I complained. They will not guarantee, these EID tags like the other tags that so many use.

Once I left the board, I never heard anymore about my concerns. I'm 31, I farm together with my wife. I thought they'd want younger members opinions, but it's like smacking your head against a wall.

 

[milkloss]

You think a computer system that needs staff is a good one?

Yes because computer systems can't handle the unusual. At the moment you have well trained and efficient staff, under your command you'd have a numpty or two that will refer to the computer system and say 'the computer says no so what do you want me to do about it?'

With sheep EID one of the requirements was a 100% accurate tracing system. How many sheep get misread at mart or lose tags? just one, yes, one tag missing or misread renders the whole system inaccurate and irrelevant in the eyes of the EU, there never was an acceptable inaccuracy built into the system.

Anyone with livestock knows that things are very often far from the norm at times and computers and their systems aren't programmed to handle this so it needs humans.

 

[matthew]

As I understand it the system is almost full, it would cost a huge amount to add capacity and the base technology is not being supported. As for accuracy, there are something like a million incorrect data points, it is hopeless. It is nigh on impossible to pull useful information out as the processing power isn't there. It's just old and worn out.

When people tell me a data set is 'worn out' I query why data cannot be exported to a new system, intact but with options to correct any long standing errors?? That's what my computer does.

System 'almost full and needing capacity'. How so if the number of cattle in UK is decreasing?
It has dropped by around 750K - 1m head since 2005 and was 9.6m in 2018: another drop on the previous year..

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...the-livestock-industry-in-england-at-december

https://www.statista.com/statistics/291168/cattle-livestock-population-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/


The over capacity could be due to ghost numbers still on system from its inception, but which cannot be removed as nobody has informed the database that the cattle are dead. We have two numbers available. These were attached to animals sold as calves, and which by now would be OAPs - if still alive.

Staff are needed to help sort out farmer errors, which do happen.

I believe that EU member states use numerical country ID. We use still UK.

Just sayin'

Question what you are being told @mo! You may find a different answer.

 

[Henarar]

1 Eid tags for cattle are going to be introduced early next year.

2 After about 18 months all cattle on farms that have none eid tags will have to be tagged with eid tags ( thou the same number they have now will be used )

3 Herd number will stay the same

4 passports will be stopped and then it will all be done in real time using eid readers/ smartphones and that will include ALL med records for each and every animal on a national database

5 Sheep will also follow cattle and all med records for every animal will have to be done in real time on the national database which will be made avlaiable to people like retailers.

..........

NFU and in particular Minette Batters are behind/ pushing the above thru, she claims that the vast majority of NFU members want/ support the above changes and eid tagging for cattle, only problem is the vast majority of NFU members have no idea that eid tagging/ the national real time database for med records has even been thought of let alone about to be introduced.

Well thats a surprise MB supporting spending my money for no benefit to me
And mo is all for it well he would be as a store buyer someone else will have to pay for it

 

[milkloss]

You are most welcome to visit my place, and help re tag my cows.

Too right. With the HSE pushing safety around livestock I wonder at which point does forcing us to retag cows become a human rights/safety issue which will open the government/nfu et al to some form of litigation.

Tagging cows especially, despite best efforts for safety and restraint, is a very risky and dangerous task, make no mistake.

 

[S J H]

Too right. With the HSE pushing safety around livestock I wonder at which point does forcing us to retag cows become a human rights/safety issue which will open the government/nfu et al to some form of litigation.

Tagging cows especially, despite best efforts for safety and restraint, is a very risky and dangerous task, make no mistake.
View attachment 800356

You should of got one of those 'small' grants that was supported by the nfu, you know the ones where you had to stump up 7 grand.

 

[S J H]

Too right. With the HSE pushing safety around livestock I wonder at which point does forcing us to retag cows become a human rights/safety issue which will open the government/nfu et al to some form of litigation.

Tagging cows especially, despite best efforts for safety and restraint, is a very risky and dangerous task, make no mistake.
View attachment 800356

Sorry, just seen the pins Is that you?

 

[milkloss]

Sorry, just seen the pins Is that you?

Was three years ago. We were replacing tags in some old cows (up to 9 years old probably), some of these cows had been tagged at least three times before and as we all know these new tags have to go in a fresh piece of ear as retention in a previous tag hole is very bad.

Whos' had a cow in the crush and got the war cry with tongue out etc and the only thing on that animals mind is to kill you because you want to pr11ck around with her ears?

Unfair on the animal and unfair on the staff.

 

[S J H]

Was three years ago. We were replacing tags in some old cows (up to 9 years old probably), some of these cows had been tagged at least three times before and as we all know these new tags have to go in a fresh piece of ear as retention in a previous tag hole is very bad.

Whos' had a cow in the crush and got the war cry with tongue out etc and the only thing on that animals mind is to kill you because you want to plonker around with her ears?

Unfair on the animal and unfair on the staff.

Very few of the top brass at the nfu I expect.

 

[Pan mixer]

Sorry, just seen the pins Is that you?

Good to see you back posting.

 

[Princess Pooper]

I was told only order enough for use this year, because in 2020 not only EID but all numerical tags come in.
U.K. to be replaced by numbers. After a period (unspecified but 2-4 years was mentioned) all cattle must have these tags in.

We had decided ourselves to only order enough for 2019 for the same reason.

 

[Agrivator]

What puzzles me is, if an EID tag is applied to a calf at birth, who puts any further information onto that tag regarding any medical treatment that animal might receive in future. And if it looses that tag, is all the information lost.

And if the information on the tag was supplied by a farmer, who believes it anyway?

 

[Pan mixer]

If you are a member I’m amazed you haven’t come across the Livestock Information Programme. It’s been doing the rounds on the website, in BFG, in the updates, at branch and regional meetings for months now.

Thanks for replying so promptly, I don't 'like' your answer as I cannot ever remember seeing anything about this before.

However respect for you to not hide.

 

[milkloss]

What puzzles me is, if an EID tag is applied to a calf at birth, who puts any further information onto that tag regarding any medical treatment that animal might receive in future. And if it looses that tag, is all the information lost.

And if the information on the tag was supplied by a farmer, who believes it anyway?

Tag is just a reference. All the data is held in the cloud (in a computer server run by gov).

The chip actually only gives a nondescript number which is linked to the animal number on the database.