Cattle tagging regulation change?

[mo!]

What puzzles me is, if an EID tag is applied to a calf at birth, who puts any further information onto that tag regarding any medical treatment that animal might receive in future. And if it looses that tag, is all the information lost.

And if the information on the tag was supplied by a farmer, who believes it anyway?

The info is on the database, not the tag. If your drug buying records don't match your cattle records you will be in it deep.

 

[kmo]

As a store buyer , passports are useful, as a written (and signed ) record of the previous owner, the market I purchased it through and number of farm movements it's had.
Without them, and having to go through CTS, to trace animal history, it's going to be far harder to find the last owner. Can you imagine the number of extra CTS log ins there are going to be as finishers trace cattle just to check up on number of farm movements it's had previously .
Around half the markets I go to have some form of digital display showing tag number, age,sex, tb test date , weight, farm assurance status etc etc . Which you have to try and take in while cattle are going through the ring at 70 lots an hour. The passport is the paper record I get before I go home from the market to make sure what I've bought is what I thought was described in the ring. The information is in my hand not in a cloud somewhere.(for around 2% of the cattle I buy , I'm handed a market invoice and passport that doesn't match the eartags.)
The present passport system means that there are two parties in any market tag number mixup . Both have an animal and a printed passport, that don't match. Both animals are now worthless without it's own passport. It's in both parties interest ,to work together and exchange the correct passport. Checks and balances. Will this get harder without passports? Will people just be able to register any old on movements, without a paper passport (which is the ownership title document) to prove it ?

 

[Agrivator]

The info is on the database, not the tag. If your drug buying records don't match your cattle records you will be in it deep.

Marvellous. So if I worm 50 store cattle, am I supposed to take each individual number and record the fact on some database in the ether. I can observe withdrawal periods perfectly well on a batch basis ( as I do with lambs that aren't yet tagged).

It just means that folk more dishonest than me, won't record the purchase of the medicine, and won't record the actual treatment.

Is the NFU aware of the law of unexpected consequences?

 

[Gulli]

Marvellous. So if I worm 50 store cattle, am I supposed to take each individual number and record the fact on some database in the ether. I can observe withdrawal periods perfectly well on a batch basis ( as I do with lambs that aren't yet tagged).

It just means that folk more dishonest than me, won't record the purchase of the medicine, and won't record the actual treatment.

Is the NFU aware of the law of unexpected consequences?

If you're working through a race or crush it takes a few seconds to scan a tag with a reader, you can even do them as they walk past you in the shed if you want, then just add treatment details to that group, much as you would in a medicine book

 

[milkloss]

If you're working through a race or crush it takes a few seconds to scan a tag with a reader, you can even do them as they walk past you in the shed if you want, then just add treatment details to that group, much as you would in a medicine book

Can I borrow yours?

 

[JP1]

Not up with the high echelons "in the know"

My 2p is that DEFRA (and their Liverpool helplines etc) will find any excuse to pan CTS because the system works and the Cumbrians are helpful and know what they are on about

Maybe dated tech but the system works and folks understand it

I'd sooner Gov were late adopters of tech and made it work well

I can cope with online and like the internal secure messaging system and their traffic light system for anomalies

Why the heck anyone wants to fiddle with a good system is beyond me

 

[Henarar]

Not up with the high echelons "in the know"

My 2p is that DEFRA (and their Liverpool helplines etc) will find any excuse to pan CTS because the system works and the Cumbrians are helpful and know what they are on about

Maybe dated tech but the system works and folks understand it

I'd sooner Gov were late adopters of tech and made it work well

I can cope with online and like the internal secure messaging system and their traffic light system for anomalies

Why the heck anyone wants to fiddle with a good system is beyond me

quite
there have been threads on here for years and some have said that CTS is fecked and about to collapse yet when I turn it on it works
why don't they try the new system with sheep first as that is fecked

 

[Henarar]

Can I borrow yours?

you won't need to as the government are going to give them away free with the first lot of eid tags
and yes that was a large white just went over

 

[Married 2 The Mob]

Is this going to be similar to making vat digital, ie we will have to purchase compatible software for uploading the medicine data to the cloud database?

 

[M-J-G]

Been talked about for a couple of years up here.

It will mean passports and standstill can be done away with.
All health and movement data will be attached to animals ID via an EID database.

All good stuff IMO.

 

[JP1]

Is this going to be similar to making vat digital, ie we will have to purchase compatible software for uploading the medicine data to the cloud database?

That's yet to finally come out of the woodwork

The last time this was discussed, it was mooted you won't be able to manually read tags and manually enter the numbers in a movement system. Time will tell. I'm sure someone important will come along and finally tell us all. The thought of me having to wave a wand around a circling pen of Galloways seems daft when I can recognise each and every one of my cattle but hey ho, I'm just a peasant cow keeper

At least I suppose if you can't read a tag manually you won't ever get put in the awkward predicament of recognising a horse going in to the food chain instead of a moo moo

It's all for improved whole lifetime assurance don't you know

 

[JP1]

Been talked about for a couple if years up here.

It will mean passports and standstill can be done away with.
All health and movement data will be attached to animals ID via an EID database.

All good stuff IMO.

Sitting as I do not a million miles away from Cheales and with ASF just in to France now (and with all the regional Vet Offices of APHA or whatever the latest re-organisation names them no longer in existence) I'm not so convinced as you

 

[Timbo]

Marvellous. So if I worm 50 store cattle, am I supposed to take each individual number and record the fact on some database in the ether.

This is possibly the easiest thing to record as u run them thro the crush to worm them. The EID reader will read the group and you just apply the wormer to those group when you've done them.

 

[dogandstick]

Let’s be honest, those meetings would be telling and not asking. Decisions been made without much grass roots input.

We bow down to the advances of technology......... what could ever go wrong?

Boeing 737-200 MAX

 

[JP1]

I don't ever trust ARAMS but as I can do a paper AML1 and read the tags by sight, I just accept I pay for the EiD tag and do all the lambs even those for slaughter.

If they remove the ability to read tags without a scanner, it will be a nightmare and bl@@dy unfair for small stock keepers like myself. I've had RT, Trading Standards and other inspections and always been praised for how fastidious I am with these things

 

[An Gof]

Do you lot really think the NFU just decided to roll out a new system and told DEFRA to do it?

CTS is on its knees, it's seriously old tech and pretty much useless. The NFU have been involved in consultation and have put forward members views, mine was one of them, but they can only inform the membership of what government have decided, not dictate to the lawmakers.

Maybe we should abandon technology altogether, hand milking and delivery by horse anyone? That three legged stool looks a bit fancy, you should have stuck with an old stump to sit on...

Rubbish, absolute rubbish. CTS works faultlessly.

 

[An Gof]

If you are a member I’m amazed you haven’t come across the Livestock Information Programme. It’s been doing the rounds on the website, in BFG, in the updates, at branch and regional meetings for months now.

That’s a brave statement to make Guy. There’s a whole heap of members around here that have little idea what’s coming down the tracks .......... and when they find out I doubt they will be over enamoured by it.
There were several EID projects in Cornwall back in the Objective 5b era (almost 20 years ago). I was even a director of one group. Let’s just say it wasn’t a shining light of success.
I wonder if all the old kit I had back then will work now?

 

[kmo]

Is this going to be similar to making vat digital,

I hope not. Haven't been able to register with HMRC for VAT yet. I don't have a passport so their system checked me with credit agencies and doesn't "recognise" me. Yet I can make Tax payments through the Govt Gateway!
The latest email from their help desk says that they have new software coming to help the "minority" who haven't been able to register yet .

 

[Gulli]

Can I borrow yours?

Sure thing, you come and collect it and then return it as well. Obviously only when I'm not using it

 

[penntor]

I have heard that cattle tags will be changing and will not be EID but GPS chip that can be read from a satelite so location of all bovine animals will be known, especially on the commons.