Chopping straw and fert reduction.

[Sprayer 1]

How many years of chopping straw does it take before you start to see benefits of
p&k building up. We are in our 3rd year of DD and although the cheque for straw at £90 per ton is welcome it comes at a cost, baling , loading , carting delivery compaction and then buying p&k to put back. We have tried muck for straw deals with local cow farmers which in theory should work, but taking bales off the field when its wet and not making it a priority to bring our straw back makes me think we should just leave it there . so is there much p&k in straw?

 

[Clive]

£90 per tonne I would sell every bit of it !

P&k us if little relevance imo - the OM is the valuable bit

I values straw highly and rarely sell but can’t get close to those kind of values

 

[Brisel]

See the attachment

 

[Brisel]

What kind of carbon are you leaving in your field? Low quality nearly unpalatable stuff. It all helps the soil but really if you can get manure instead you're better off. IMO the traffic timing is more important than the fertiliser. You can buy a lot of Kalphos or Fibrophos with your straw cheque. Are you in the catchment for United Utilities free sewage cake?

 

[deleted user 837354]

The P and K in straw is in a less available form than those forms in manure.

Manure and slurry really is a magic pot of nutrients in a mixture of different forms, some of which are available from the moment they hit the soil, and others which break down in time. They are also loaded with bacteria and are a food source for worms and other soil life.

I would try to form a partnership with the local livestock farmers who operate a sensible outfit but who realise the importance of prompt straw removal and who will deal with you straight. I would not hold them to ransom looking for the highest possible price per tonne though. More a long term arrangement where they know I have an acreage for them guaranteed and you will work with them.

Sewage sludge and other materials are worth investigating, too. Although dairy muck can be stacked anywhere and is less likely to cause grief with neighbours.

The better crops you get from manures outweigh a lot of the grief IMO. They are faster out of the blocks, establish faster, don't need you out so fast in spring and they are more resistant to the weather.

If you can't find a sensible livestock farmer who appreciates the deal you give and how it affects your operation I would walk away too in fairness.

Don't panic about getting manure spread in the autumn. You can turn the heaps and spread it on crops in the spring or just leave it until after harvest. Be flexible. Hire a good spreader or even buy one with the P and K savings.

I would not pay silly money for manures mind. Get that clear at the outset. You provide the straw and want some money besides that.

 

[Clive]

Straw, cover crops, compost, biosolid, ad, fym

You want it ALL ideally - carbon is king, it’s what we all make and sell and its depleting fast from most arable soils

It’s only worth selling any of it if the price offered is higher than the cost of replacement

 

[Brisel]

How many years of chopping straw does it take before you start to see benefits of
p&k building up. We are in our 3rd year of DD and although the cheque for straw at £90 per ton is welcome it comes at a cost, baling , loading , carting delivery compaction and then buying p&k to put back. We have tried muck for straw deals with local cow farmers which in theory should work, but taking bales off the field when its wet and not making it a priority to bring our straw back makes me think we should just leave it there . so is there much p&k in straw?

Would it be worth your while partnering up with a local farmer/contractor to clear your straw with your say so? You'd be in control much more though it risks double handling & the straw becomes your liability for safe storage, loading out etc. depending on the deal.

A very big local contract arable farmer pays for baling & clearing the straw & sell it ex field rather than in the swath. That enables him to keep control of the job to keep his crawler going on cultivations for as long as possible.

 

[Sprayer 1]

Although straw prices won't be as much this year going by the huge amounts is fodder there is it is looking like straw for muck is the way to go according to you guys if I can find the right livestock farmer.

 

[Brisel]

I used to sell all my cereal straw & use the money to buy sewage cake & compost. Lots of hold ups in bad weather, compaction and extra traffic at harvest. I'm gradually weaning myself off swaths but last year I couldn't afford not to sell most of mine. Having a Claydon drill that doesn't like badly chopped & spread barley straw means I still have to sell some.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Although straw prices won't be as much this year going by the huge amounts is fodder there is it is looking like straw for muck is the way to go according to you guys if I can find the right livestock farmer.

You've got the right idea.

I had clients who used to take a lot of slurry from neighbours at times. The nearly inevitable complaint was that the slurry seemed to encourage the growth of docks and thistles wherever you put it.

Don't let that deter you though- these weeds in arable crops are easy to eradicate using standard chemistry at low doses which you are probably using anyway. Certainly less than £10/acre which is easily recouped by the nutrients and organic matter you are receiving.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I used to sell all my cereal straw & use the money to buy sewage cake & compost. Lots of hold ups in bad weather, compaction and extra traffic at harvest. I'm gradually weaning myself off swaths but last year I couldn't afford not to sell most of mine. Having a Claydon drill that doesn't like badly chopped & spread barley straw means I still have to sell some.

How far are you from people with a lot of straw-based pigs?

 

[Brisel]

How far are you from people with a lot of straw-based pigs?

There are a few about. Some of my spring barley straw went to an outdoor unit but most was for cattle via farmers or merchants.

 

[willy]

Although straw prices won't be as much this year going by the huge amounts is fodder there is it is looking like straw for muck is the way to go according to you guys if I can find the right livestock farmer.

Prices around here for the coming harvest are pretty strong approx £15 a 600kg bale. About the same as last year. My view is I will decide on the day and if they can get there when they say they can. Sewage sludge and straight swap with local beef farmer for return mucked staw my ideal.

 

[deleted user 837354]

If straw is making £15 a bale, do you not want the muck back AND some cash?

 

[willy]

If straw is making £15 a bale, do you not want the muck back AND some cash?

To be fair would rather have mucked straw any day.

 

[willy]

Straw burning power stations are putting a good base in the price.

 

[deleted user 837354]

To be fair would rather have mucked straw any day.

Do a deal with the right man then. Him giving you the manure back takes his farm loading down and probably represents the cheapest straw he can possibly buy?

Bale the lot, even the linseed or OSR or bean haulm I would, let him take it away.

 

[Clive]

Prices around here for the coming harvest are pretty strong approx £15 a 600kg bale. About the same as last year. My view is I will decide on the day and if they can get there when they say they can. Sewage sludge and straight swap with local beef farmer for return mucked staw my ideal.

Under £30/t baled and delivered ? Far to cheap

I want that much in the swath or the muck back

 

[willy]

Under £30/t baled and delivered ? Far to cheap

I want that much in the swath or the muck back

£15 per bale in the swath. But yer I agree mucked straw best option, I am lucky I have a beef farmer to do a deal with. Many around here don’t. I use a lot of sewage sludge and to be honest this gives me better instant returns.

 

[Sprayer 1]

Who bales,carts for 15 pound, 5 quid to bale here.