Continuous cereals

[ajd132]

is anyone doing this with no till/reduced till systems? Dad used to grow continuous wheat until BG took hold. Would a flexible mix of winter and spring cereals with no set rotation (all year and condition dependant) interspersed with cover crops be viable? We use chicken manure. We have both tine and disc drills aswell as the use of a stripper header.

 

[Feldspar]

is anyone doing this with no till/reduced till systems? Dad used to grow continuous wheat until BG took hold. Would a flexible mix of winter and spring cereals with no set rotation (all year and condition dependant) interspersed with cover crops be viable? We use chicken manure. We have both tine and disc drills aswell as the use of a stripper header.

Just been crunching cropping margins for this year. Winter barley coming out not too far off OSR. On some farms tempted to run wheat - fallow - wheat - fallow - winter barley - fallow with the barley taking the place of OSR in areas with lots of woods / houses / if there are bad conditions for drilling. Farmer near us did it for a surprisingly long time with no obvious BG, but I think he now has some spring crops. Wouldn't do it myself unless you were prepared for it only to run for 5 years max.

 

[ajd132]

Just been crunching cropping margins for this year. Winter barley coming out not too far off OSR. On some farms tempted to run wheat - fallow - wheat - fallow - winter barley - fallow with the barley taking the place of OSR in areas with lots of woods / houses / if there are bad conditions for drilling. Farmer near us did it for a surprisingly long time with no obvious BG, but I think he now has some spring crops. Wouldn't do it myself unless you were prepared for it only to run for 5 years max.

My numbers don’t make osr worth the risk (we don’t grow it anyway) to be honest we are basically doing this rotation anyway just with some beans sometimes and it’s working well to be honest.

 

[Feldspar]

My numbers don’t make osr worth the risk (we don’t grow it anyway) to be honest we are basically doing this rotation anyway just with some beans sometimes and it’s working well to be honest.

You always hear about people doing things like continuous spring barley. I always wonder how that is so fine whereas continuous winter wheat isn't (from a yield point of view particularly). Don't have any data in my mind for longer term cereal rotations. Would be interested to find some.

 

[ajd132]

You always hear about people doing things like continuous spring barley. I always wonder how that is so fine whereas continuous winter wheat isn't (from a yield point of view particularly). Don't have any data in my mind for longer term cereal rotations. Would be interested to find some.

But dad grew continuous winter wheat and averaged 9.5t/ha (until BG) so I don’t see why continuous cereals should be a problem.

 

[Daniel]

Just been crunching cropping margins for this year. Winter barley coming out not too far off OSR. On some farms tempted to run wheat - fallow - wheat - fallow - winter barley - fallow with the barley taking the place of OSR in areas with lots of woods / houses / if there are bad conditions for drilling. Farmer near us did it for a surprisingly long time with no obvious BG, but I think he now has some spring crops. Wouldn't do it myself unless you were prepared for it only to run for 5 years max.

So every other year, you've no income, but presumably need to keep it topped etc, so have costs. Rent?

 

[Feldspar]

So every other year, you've no income, but presumably need to keep it topped etc, so have costs. Rent?

Mid Tier AB6 option. £436 / ha and we're allocating £100/ha fixed costs over it so £336/ha margin. Very fortunate to have no rent.

 

[Daniel]

Mid Tier AB6 option. £436 / ha and we're allocating £100/ha fixed costs over it so £336/ha margin. Very fortunate to have no rent.

I suppose there are plenty of years where cropping it returns less margin than that.

The weed return would be phenomenal here if you tried it, a forest of fathen with an understory of AMG, chickweed and speedwell, eventually succumbing to cleavers.

 

[DanM]

Why not put stubble turnips or an oat/vetch cover crop in during the “fallow” years and let your local shepherd graze it. Land would stay in better heart and no topping requirement?

 

[Feldspar]

Why not put stubble turnips or an oat/vetch cover crop in during the “fallow” years and let your local shepherd graze it. Land would stay in better heart and no topping requirement?

Wish that was possible. Rule book says no though. Nothing though to stop the combine running with sufficient losses and get a decent volunteer cover crop.

 

[farmerm]

Mid Tier AB6 option. £436 / ha and we're allocating £100/ha fixed costs over it so £336/ha margin. Very fortunate to have no rent.

Just looking at the rules..

"do not apply pesticides to the stubble, except herbicides to control problem grass weeds by spraying the affected area from 15 May"

So you can burn it down with Glyphosate on May 16th.... downside is a new 5 year agreement might be longer than the life of Glyphosate.....

 

[Banana Bar]

50% wheat 25% spring barley, 12.5% spring oats, 12.5% beans?

 

[Clive]

is anyone doing this with no till/reduced till systems? Dad used to grow continuous wheat until BG took hold. Would a flexible mix of winter and spring cereals with no set rotation (all year and condition dependant) interspersed with cover crops be viable? We use chicken manure. We have both tine and disc drills aswell as the use of a stripper header.

As I mentioned at BASE agm I’m experimenting with 40ac in continuous wheat with 2-3 month mostly leguminous cover between

Bit of a contrast to my “rotation” that doesnt even grow 2nd wheats

Obviously it’s goung to be a few years before I have anything useful to say about it though !

 

[ajd132]

50% wheat 25% spring barley, 12.5% spring oats, 12.5% beans?

That’s basically what we are doing anyway, but with a cover crop established by cultivating infront of the spring crops is the plan.

 

[B R C]

After a couple of years of osr failure have dropped it, currently getting rotation to 40% wheat, 20% Spring barley, 20% w oats, 20% w beans.
Will be considering dropping beans, but will now direct drill them so hopefully will be a cheap to grow slternativevto fallow. Will remain flexible though and depending on what’s on offer in the next few years will still consider fallow or extensive grass reversion.

 

[ajd132]

After a couple of years of osr failure have dropped it, currently getting rotation to 40% wheat, 20% Spring barley, 20% w oats, 20% w beans.
Will be considering dropping beans, but will now direct drill them so hopefully will be a cheap to grow slternativevto fallow. Will remain flexible though and depending on what’s on offer in the next few years will still consider fallow or extensive grass reversion.

This is similar to us, however with the beans we get really good yields especially if we cultivate shallow for them (dd beans on clay seems bloody difficult). They make money so will probably keep growing them.

 

[AF Salers]

Simon Cowell grows continuous wheats

 

[Simon C]

Simon Cowell grows continuous wheats

Sorry not true, although I would do if I had no blackgrass. I'm quite happy to do a second wheat where there is no BG, but it is amazing how it creeps back if you don't keep changing crops and drilling dates.

 

[SilliamWhale]

WW/WB (or spring barley)/OSR/WW/Barley (spring ) or winter wheat/ Beans is pretty much what I do. If I see a bit of Brome rising then I make a few management choices.

I keep more flexible on the Second WW/ Winter Barley/ Spring Barley in that part of the rotation because it can need moving about.

My advice - keep it flexible if you can and look at the whole farm rather than just the individual crop gross margins.

 

[AF Salers]

Sorry not true, although I would do if I had no blackgrass. I'm quite happy to do a second wheat where there is no BG, but it is amazing how it creeps back if you don't keep changing crops and drilling dates.

Apologies Simon, i thought you were doing