cows calving

[johnspeehs]

I read an article by someone in our local ag college with regards to cows calving , he says its about two hrs after the water bag appears in cows and 3 hrs in hfrs before you should intervene if nothings happening, sounds a bit long to me, I've had plenty of near misses in a lot shorter time periods than that, what does everyone else find??

 

[CollCrofter]

I've had disasters in less time and disasters with more time. I imagine every cattleman on TFF will have the same thought with heifers, not so much cows as you get to know them. But yes, water bag is usually 2 hours but a cow here last year calved within minutes after the bag burst... like I nipped to the shed 2 minutes away for something and went straight back and the cow was licking the calf.... It's the heifers I panic with, as I'm sure we all do.

When I was younger I was very guilty of going in too quick but I've certainly calmed down more these days

 

[Werzle]

I like to leave them a good hour and see them flat out trying there best before i help ease them out, usually if they will let me walk up and put the ropes on they are ready for abit of help. Calfs seem to fill up with fluid if i leave them too long but each calving is different. Nothing worse than pulling one when the dam hasnt slackened up fully though. Easier to leave one longer during the day than during the night when you want to get it calved and get back to bed!

 

[M-J-G]

2 hours and 3 hours is a bit vague.
And unless you have the luxury of time to watch every cow all the time it's not realistic advice, mainly because you don't know when the cow had a water bag out unless you sit on some kind of vigil.
Sounds like typical college talk.

As long as there is progress I don't bother them.

30 to 40 minutes with no progress warrants a closer look IMO, as long as thing a are moving you're better staying out of the way.

 

[An ancient git]

Knowing when to intervene is a gut-feel stockperson instinct . Can't be prescribed in books ..... If you get job right 90% of time then Hallelujah , you're a stockman !!!!

 

[johnspeehs]

Think we are all mostly signing off the same hymn sheet then. I had one last week, saw her on the camera at 1.30am with water bag out and said il give her an hr but I dozed off and didnt waken until 4.45. Turned out to be a good job because it was a real bruiser of a simm bull calf and she needed all the time she got and i'd no doubt been intervening much sooner, was able to calf her without the jack, but ive lost them in much shorter time scales.

 

[An ancient git]

There's not a 'right' time-scale . My usual ploy is to have a cuppa/ stronger and then go back !! Too soon tends to screw-up my 90% ideal ....

 

[CollCrofter]

usually if they will let me walk up and put the ropes on they are ready for abit of help

Definitely this.

 

[Yonlass]

Knowing when to intervene is a gut-feel stockperson instinct . Can't be prescribed in books ..... If you get job right 90% of time then Hallelujah , you're a stockman !!!!

That's exactly what I think. If you feel something is amiss, it usually is! Sounds daft, but the cow will have a slightly more worried expression on her face than one where everything is coming correctly.
And another +1 for @Werzle
If she'll let you feel inside (talking dairy cows here!) then she generally needs a help. If she jumps up, give her another half hour.
Unless it's a heifer, who might just jump up anyway. They're a bit more brainless than an old dear who's done it all before!

 

[PaulNix]

As long as there is progress I don't bother them.

30 to 40 minutes with no progress warrants a closer look IMO, as long as thing a are moving you're better staying out of the way.

This is what my grandfather and father told me and was backed up at college by what we were told, in my experience since it seems about right.

 

[som farmer]

instinct, after x amount of years doing it, son reckons i'm to quick, but a quick feel is reassuring. But, 1 thing I have learnt from the younger generation, feed the dry cows in the evening, we very seldom have anything calve overnight. Used to think that was bullocks, but very happy to have been proved very wrong. If, like me, you disbelieved it, try it, it takes a lot of stress from calving.

 

[Cowslip]

We are doing this at the moment, feed all calving cows between 5 and 6pm had 18 so far all during the day. Only another 120 to go so fingers crossed. Sheep on the other hand we feed first in the morning and lights off at night seems to work too.

 

[Davy_g]

I use a MooCall, maybe come to rely on it a bit but; it has not taught me one thing about examining or calving a cow.
What it has given me is a confirmation my gut instinct is correct. If I don’t see progress between the first and second high tail activity warning then I check the cow out for mal presentation. No doubt this has saved many calves. I never had a calf born from every cow before MooCall. I have now had two years of a living calf from every cow.
It’s not a boast, I’m sure there has been luck involved but one example was mal presentation of twins when no water bag was pushed out and as it was during the night I would not have seen the cow fretting. I burst the water bag and rummaged about to get the twin bulls out.
It gives me the time the college talk about, it takes away guess work. It doesn’t work with cows that breeze through labour, but some things have to be left to nature.
Coupled with the heat sensor I have accurate gestation with the stock bull so my dry cow management has also improved. It all helps.

 

[M-J-G]

instinct, after x amount of years doing it, son reckons i'm to quick, but a quick feel is reassuring. But, 1 thing I have learnt from the younger generation, feed the dry cows in the evening, we very seldom have anything calve overnight. Used to think that was bullocks, but very happy to have been proved very wrong. If, like me, you disbelieved it, try it, it takes a lot of stress from calving.

I was sceptical about the theory of feeding in evenings, but it does work.

 

[Baker9]

I was sceptical about the theory of feeding in evenings, but it does work.

Also works with sheep. I feed about 9pm and there is very little action until 5 or 6am

 

[milkloss]

If it hasn’t calved in the day and starts messing about in the evening then it’s straight in. Most stuff calving at night is probably introuble or trying to roll the calf itself in some way by moving about. There’s no way I’m going to be checking cattle past bedtime anyway.

moocall sounds great........ but we calve the majority outside mid April, so about 50 in the first two weeks I guess. Would it work for that?

 

[Samcowman]

Progress is what to look out for and trying not to disturb them too much.
Feeding at night really does work one of the ‘experienced’ guys that works with us was telling me about it and I haven’t looked back.
Also keep good records of assists, it’s easier to record it as you go along than try to remember at the end of calving ifbull A or B was the harder calving bull and if cow 12 had to be pulled last year as well.

 

[multi power]

Best thing if you see a cow calving is leave her alone and go and do something useful for an hour or two

 

[Werzle]

If it hasn’t calved in the day and starts messing about in the evening then it’s straight in. Most stuff calving at night is probably introuble or trying to roll the calf itself in some way by moving about. There’s no way I’m going to be checking cattle past bedtime anyway.

moocall sounds great........ but we calve the majority outside mid April, so about 50 in the first two weeks I guess. Would it work for that?

Calving suckler hfrs i check them every three hours during the night! Not sure how this feeding at night thing works when they have access to silage 24/7 either.

 

[manhill]

Best thing if you see a cow calving is leave her alone and go and do something useful for an hour or two

Main worry there is if the bag is tough and intact and the calf inhales the fluid. Had close shaves with that before so like to be there with knife at the ready if possible.