Dog attack again..

[suffolksmallholder]

From a friend on my FB page and makes shocking reading......

We have had 17 separate dog incidents today with people having dogs off leads and chasing sheep at Church Farm, Hughenden (the grazing fields adjacent to the main hughenden Manor House)!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep dogs on a lead near any livestock regardless if you trust them or not - it’s not worth the risk as there is always a first time - There are signs everywhere and I am so so sick of saying it and the lad that works for us has been there 4 hours now sorting it all out !!!

SS

 

[ollie989898]

Disappear a dog or two- only solution. Film everything.

 

[milkloss]

Always use a shotgun not a rifle unless your FAC has dogs listed on it otherwise you'll be in breach if your license conditions and loose your toys.

You ever tried getting 'dog' on your ticket? I did, more for the point than actually wanting to shoot someone's Fido. Turns out, so they say, that if all one had to hand was the .308 and you abide by the protection of stock rules, you'd be ok.

no, I didn't put much faith in that suggestion either. Nor did I get domastic dog on my licence.

 

[unlacedgecko]

You ever tried getting 'dog' on your ticket? I did, more for the point than actually wanting to shoot someone's Fido. Turns out, so they say, that if all one had to hand was the .308 and you abide by the protection of stock rules, you'd be ok.

no, I didn't put much faith in that suggestion either. Nor did I get domastic dog on my licence.

I've seen a condition word along the lines of "humane despatch and defence of livestock".

 

[Dry Rot]

Be careful what you shoot. These days a highly trained dog could be worth upwards of a five figure sum, although they are unlikely to be the ones that get into trouble.

The problem is not the dogs but the stupid owners who can't train them and don't understand how dogs think. The whole subject needs more publicity and more education....which it certainly isn't getting at the moment.

Put some of the responsibility on those who sell dogs to people who are clearly unqualified to own them. There is a move in France for all horse owners to be qualified and pass an examination in basic care before owning a horse. That can't be a bad thing, much as I hate rules, regulations, and bureaucracy. Frankly, some of the paranoia exhibited in this thread won't help either. What's needed is cool reasoned discussion that will convince the politicians who may be dog owners themselves.

 

[paul&mandy]

Thanks all, I've been reading all your posts.
It does seem quite a widespread problem, especially over the festive period.

 

[BAF]

You ever tried getting 'dog' on your ticket? I did, more for the point than actually wanting to shoot someone's Fido. Turns out, so they say, that if all one had to hand was the .308 and you abide by the protection of stock rules, you'd be ok.

no, I didn't put much faith in that suggestion either. Nor did I get domastic dog on my licence.

It's not something I've personally tried. If you got their advice in an email with a name behind it I'd feel a little bit more confident in that advice!

 

[TedField]

Can you electric fence around where they are coming in? if you know who they are would it be possible to take them to small claims court and get local paper involved?

 

[Fatlamb]

I've seen a condition word along the lines of "humane despatch and defence of livestock".

I’ve got protection of livestock on mine- the firearms officer said if youve only got a rifle to hand dont be shy in using it aslong as it’s a safe shot

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Be careful what you shoot. These days a highly trained dog could be worth upwards of a five figure sum, although they are unlikely to be the ones that get into trouble.

The problem is not the dogs but the stupid owners who can't train them and don't understand how dogs think. The whole subject needs more publicity and more education....which it certainly isn't getting at the moment.

Put some of the responsibility on those who sell dogs to people who are clearly unqualified to own them. There is a move in France for all horse owners to be qualified and pass an examination in basic care before owning a horse. That can't be a bad thing, much as I hate rules, regulations, and bureaucracy. Frankly, some of the paranoia exhibited in this thread won't help either. What's needed is cool reasoned discussion that will convince the politicians who may be dog owners themselves.

The value of the dog isn’t important if it’s worrying your sheep and you shoot it perfectly legally though as a last resort. As long as I’m legally in the right I’d not bay an eyelid at shooting a £100 000 stud dog if it was busy ripping the throats out of my sheep

 

[unlacedgecko]

The value of the dog isn’t important if it’s worrying your sheep and you shoot it perfectly legally though as a last resort. As long as I’m legally in the right I’d not bay an eyelid at shooting a £100 000 stud dog if it was busy ripping the throats out of my sheep

Shoot a £100 000 stud dog as it's throating a £15 draft Shetland? Yeah I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep either.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Shoot a £100 000 stud dog as it's throating a £15 draft Shetland? Yeah I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep either.

Value of the sheep is irrelevant too. The dog is doing something it shouldn’t, out of control on private property. It’s a case of upholding the law as it stands. It’s a case of your property is destroying my property, you weren’t doing anything about it, I did.

 

[Dry Rot]

The value of the dog isn’t important if it’s worrying your sheep and you shoot it perfectly legally though as a last resort. As long as I’m legally in the right I’d not bay an eyelid at shooting a £100 000 stud dog if it was busy ripping the throats out of my sheep

It is not whether you believe you are right but whether you can prove that to a court of law.

 

[Goweresque]

In Sctland definitely criminal offence max £40,000 fine or 12 months prison.

Livestock worrying is a criminal offence in England and Wales:

Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953

An Act to provide for the punishment of persons whose dogs worry livestock on agricultural land; and for purposes connected with the matter aforesaid.

www.legislation.gov.uk

And an amended bill is currently going through Parliament to strengthen the above law:

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/2880

 

[unlacedgecko]

Friday. Loose dogs had escaped someones garden and ran about hunting. A lab x and a spaniel.

No bites on sheep, but pushed them through a fence and over the neighbours. I caught one dog and called the tag number. Owner very apologetic and came to collect. Couldn't catch spaniel, but husband got it later apparently. When she took the lab off me she said "they normally come home quite quickly", which worries me it is a regular thing.

Not wanting/expecting formal action but words of advice and a log of the incident would be good.

Both the keeper and I warned her the dogs risk being shot.

I've just called 101 now. Fair play, phone was answered quickly and officers are attending to take a statement from me tomorrow.

Very helpful officer from Police Scotland just left. Took a written statement and will be speaking to the dog owner. Has arranged for the dog warden to speak to them also.

Great response, I'm very happy.

 

[yellowbelly]

Livestock worrying is a criminal offence in England and Wales:

That's good to know.

The last time we had an incident the police officer attending told me as it wasn't a criminal offence they didn't want to get involved but he did go and speak to the owner of the dog.
I don't know what was said but the owner was suddenly very keen to come round and settle up having originally said he wasn't going to do so.

 

[Goweresque]

That's good to know.

The last time we had an incident the police officer attending told me as it wasn't a criminal offence they didn't want to get involved but he did go and speak to the owner of the dog.
I don't know what was said but the owner was suddenly very keen to come round and settle up having originally said he wasn't going to do so.

You should write to the Chief Constable and demand that the officer in question be reprimanded for not knowing (or lying about) what the law actually is.

 

[yellowbelly]

You should write to the Chief Constable and demand that the officer in question be reprimanded for not knowing (or lying about) what the law actually is.

Yeah, probably, but as the bloke settled up for the dead lambs and paid for all the vet bills for stitching up, A/B's, etc, and voluntarily had his dog put down, I was just pleased to be able to draw a line under it all.

 

[Coximus]

Round here, Plod don't like to get involved because, technically, sheep worrying is a civil offence and not a criminal one.
If you want to prosecute, you have to do it yourself.

Always report incidents to the Police - then you have a date and an incident number that you can go back to when needed.

Although they don't want to get involved, our local coppers have always been good enough to visit the culprits and impress upon then that I'm not messing about and they are sure, that if they don't accept responsibility, I will take legal action.
That's usually enough to get the dog owners to come to their senses and come round and settle up - they always seem to take more notice if there's a Police car parked outside and somebody in a uniform reading 'the riot act', rather than a scruffy pick up and an irate shepherd cussing and swearing.

Make sure you get full compensation for all deaths, all vet visits and add a bit more on for 'unseen losses' in pregnant ewes, that will show up later.

Oh, and make sure to tell them that if Fido so much as pokes his nose through the fence again, you'll blow his head off.

If you want the dog destroying, IME, you'll have to take them to court and get a magistrate to say so, but he's likely to issue an order saying that they have to keep it under control and it'll only have to be destroyed after a second 'offence'.

Been here before - Magistrates are loathe to go for the dog, if its a first offence, as the owner will plead mental health, the dogs good etc, and in my case cry profusely.

Its better to make sure you solicitor repeatedly refers to the right to destroy, your good nature in refraining from exercising your right etc.... it will come accross to the owner of the dog clearly that next time it wont be a magistrate telling you to get a vet to do it, it will be shot.

Also the benefit is all the locals quickly find out about it and the local dog toilet footpath will become alot quieter until some new city folk move in and need re educating.

 

[Guleesh]

Very helpful officer from Police Scotland just left. Took a written statement and will be speaking to the dog owner. Has arranged for the dog warden to speak to them also.

Great response, I'm very happy.

Yeah, we've also been very happy with how Police Scotland have dealt with the various incidents we've had, we've always been taken seriously and have had some problems nipped in the bud for us. For me, involving the police is a last resort, if people are reasonable then so am I, but if it comes to educating r soles, then best to let the police do it.