Easy calving ebv’s
- Thread starter onthehoof
- Start date
M-J-G
Member
Extremely good figures tend to be reasonably reliable, more so than difficult figured bulls I've found.
Poor ones can be can calve fine
How well do you know the breed?
Poor ones can be can calve fine
How well do you know the breed?
JMTHORNLEY
Member
- Location
- Glossop
Always an interesting topic. I’ve seen great massive Bules with very high easy calving EBVs and I tend to wonder is that easy calving for a Blue or is that ‘easy calving’
I’ve bulled for the first time with a Blue and picked him based on calves he’s thrown and his shape. Fantastic calving ease and 100 day growth, scores very high on everything else as well. Shortish leg and not to much power but good enough. He’s gone over some Shorthorns and they’ve been calving since start of April, now I don’t want to jinx anything but so far I’ve not had to intervene at all and they’ve all been up and sucking in an hour maximum.
I think a lot of it depends on the bread. I’d find Limmy EBVs to be more reliable than say a Blue because there are more of them in working systems. I could be wrong there but I think it applies to a lot of breads, the more popular the more results you’ll have..? I’d buy again off the back of EBV results
I’ve bulled for the first time with a Blue and picked him based on calves he’s thrown and his shape. Fantastic calving ease and 100 day growth, scores very high on everything else as well. Shortish leg and not to much power but good enough. He’s gone over some Shorthorns and they’ve been calving since start of April, now I don’t want to jinx anything but so far I’ve not had to intervene at all and they’ve all been up and sucking in an hour maximum.
I think a lot of it depends on the bread. I’d find Limmy EBVs to be more reliable than say a Blue because there are more of them in working systems. I could be wrong there but I think it applies to a lot of breads, the more popular the more results you’ll have..? I’d buy again off the back of EBV results
easy calving for a blue is unassisted
- Location
- Scotland
Maybe a bit early for popcorn but I'll make an exception for this!
As above it's definitely the accuracy figure you should look out for. I've never understood why any society would submit low figures and there are some very low figures!
As above it's definitely the accuracy figure you should look out for. I've never understood why any society would submit low figures and there are some very low figures!
M-J-G
Member
And what figure is that?
AI?? Guess a lot more accuracy with AI as probably hundreds or thousands of calvings to back up figures, but buying young bull from sale a bit more hit and miss
M-J-G
Member
An AI calving survey is in no way related to EBVs, unless the have recently started using that data, but I don't believe they have a model to deal with that.
JMTHORNLEY
Member
- Location
- Glossop
This was my thinking
M-J-G
Member
A limited number of commercially used Beef AI bulls will have enough progeny on the ground to make huge differences to accuracies, and hardly any will have data from thousands of progeny in their EBVs.
If they did the BLUP system would work an awful lot better.
- Location
- Derbyshire
Agree re AI calving surveys. They are reliable... but on their own. There is no relationship between this and EBVs. This is because it is a secret how each company runs their respective surveys and they wouldn’t want their bulls compared with bulls owned by other companies. You just know that if they sell semen from a difficult calving bull, it is reputation suicide!
I also know that when you look at calving ease, it is breed specific. So a difficult calving Angus could still be easier calving than an easy calving blue. Unless anything has changed since I was involved. I believe even the carcass traits are breed specific as they are on different breed bases.
I also know that when you look at calving ease, it is breed specific. So a difficult calving Angus could still be easier calving than an easy calving blue. Unless anything has changed since I was involved. I believe even the carcass traits are breed specific as they are on different breed bases.
Also ebv’s are worked out using data from pedigree herds while AI calving surveys will have been carried out on commercial cows. Most breeds (apart from the Blues maybe) will calve easier when bred pure than when crossed - possibly due to hybrid vigour increasing the size of the calf.
Got a +13.9 for calving ease Charolais.
Had 4 crops of calves from him now and definitely easier calving than previous ones so would say they are generally an accurate guide but you do still have to use your eyes too.
Have seen many bulls at the sales with good figures on paper but big deep front ends with broad shoulders that would suggest otherwise.
Had 4 crops of calves from him now and definitely easier calving than previous ones so would say they are generally an accurate guide but you do still have to use your eyes too.
Have seen many bulls at the sales with good figures on paper but big deep front ends with broad shoulders that would suggest otherwise.
- Location
- Scotland
Out of interest, what is the accuracy ?
- Location
- Scottsih Borders
In the initial stages of EBVs, a normal suckler herd consisted of bought-in Dairy crosses. And the bulls used were terminal sires, whose desired traits were easy to define -direct ease of calving, growth rate of progeny, carcase characteristics etc.
But there has been a massive change during the last 20 years in that the majority of suckler herds try to breed their own replacements, so there are now a whole new set of traits needed in the bulls.
The main exception I suppose are Charolais bulls, but most of the other traditional terminal sires - Limousin, Simmental, Angus etc are now dual purpose breeds - and their desired traits are less easy to define. Traits desired in a terminal sire (direct ease of calving) might not be compatible with traits needed in a dual-purpose sire (indirect ease of calving as an main example).
This major change might explain why EBVs are now not as easy to define or understand.
But there has been a massive change during the last 20 years in that the majority of suckler herds try to breed their own replacements, so there are now a whole new set of traits needed in the bulls.
The main exception I suppose are Charolais bulls, but most of the other traditional terminal sires - Limousin, Simmental, Angus etc are now dual purpose breeds - and their desired traits are less easy to define. Traits desired in a terminal sire (direct ease of calving) might not be compatible with traits needed in a dual-purpose sire (indirect ease of calving as an main example).
This major change might explain why EBVs are now not as easy to define or understand.
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Nothing special. 46%
Like I say, got to use your eyes still too.
Gestation -0.4 at 54%.
As in direct ease of calving is going in the opposite direction of indirect (daughters calving ease)?
And just to check everything that has a + in front is a good trait whereas a - is not?
Depends what the trait title is.
calving ease + is easier than average.
gestation length - is shorter than average.