Employment Law/Tied Cottage help!

[Wooly]

If the house is on a Shorthold Tenancy Agreement, then it is not Agricultural. In reality it is being heavily subsidised by the Landlord who could probably rent it out for several hundred pounds a month.

Perhaps your husband could suggest a pay increase to the boss.

 

[Will 1594]

Hi guys,

Farmer's wife here... My OH is a farm worker employed by a farm, and he's salaried. (£24k). His contract is for 39 hours a week, 28 days holiday. He's been working here since 2013
Of course, during harvest, his hours have more than doubled. And this year has been a bad one- iHe just gets a £1k bonus annually.

Thanks so much for any help you can offer. I'm new to the farming world, so if I've gotten anything wrong, please be kind!

How many hours O T ,does he do a year ,
Any other perks ,logs , use of forklift when gardening , service car or mend lawn mower ,in farms workshop , or if you need tyres or a battery ,and goes on farm acount ,and saves you vat
You say your new to farming ,
Does he enjoy his work ,and is the house decent ,

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

This looks like a law school exam question and not all the facts are clear. I agree with those who say professional advice is needed. Not just on the law but how to apply it so that you get what you are entitled to and keep a job. Farm workers are always in demand. If the usual free advice providers cannot give the answer then realistically a legal spend of £500 is entirely possible. Not much really when your job and your home are on the line.
Do you have legal expenses cover as part of an insurance policy? It is always worth looking.

 

[kiwi pom]

I would suggest contacting ACAS for some advice, and ensure he is keeping a record of the hours he worked.

I've just gone through the process of updating staff contracts and they told me that our salaried employee must earn more than the minimum wage for each pay period. So if he's paid monthly, his hours for that month must be paid at least at minimum wage. I believe this can be backdated if you have records of time worked.

That's interesting and IS the case here. I was told it was yearly hours worked in the UK not each pay period.
If it's per pay period, then some arable farms could be in a tight spot?

It came up here because some of the dairy guys were falling short over calving when doing big hours. They argued staff didn't do much in winter (not entirely true) so it balanced out but they still have to top the monthly wage up to at least minimum wage if doing long hours.

 

[flowerpot]

Far too many unknowns for anyone to give correct advice, so as suggested you need to keep records and then go to someone with the necessary knowledge.

As above, what is included in the rent of the cottage? What, if any, benefits in kind from the farm like firewood, use of the farm vehicle, etc. etc.

I think you are right about holidays, but you have to be able to agree when to take the holiday.

 

[glasshouse]

Hi guys,

Farmer's wife here... My OH is a farm worker employed by a farm, and he's salaried. (£24k). His contract is for 39 hours a week, 28 days holiday. He's been working here since 2013 (just before the law changed in October of that year). He has a Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (not an agricultural one) which is not mentioned on his contract, therefore I'm not 100% it can be classed as a tied cottage? Is it separate? The tenancy agreement states his rent is £25 per month, but he was never asked to actually pay it. He just took the tenancy agreement and put it in a drawer (all before I met him).

Of course, during harvest, his hours have more than doubled. And this year has been a bad one- it's usually 100 hour weeks. However, he is not paid any overtime for this. He just gets a £1k bonus annually. His contract states he can be asked to do more than 39 hours 'as is reasonable.' What's reasonable? He regularly works on bank holidays and doesn't get time off in lieu, or his correct holiday which I believe is 31 days, as he was hired prior to Oct 2013. (Can you tell I've been Googling my butt off?) His boss claims he should only get 2 weeks holiday (v. Old school). His average hourly rate is regularly way under minimum wage. If he says anything to his boss, he's told 'that's farming.' I totally get that, but as far as I'm concerned it's only farming when you're benefiting from the long hours and bad pay. It's not my OH's farm! He's an employee with a contract that's being breached.

My question is this; can they say that he's getting paid less because he gets the cottage? From what I can read online, they can only deduct £1.50 a week for accommodation, but as the agreement says £25 is that the be all and end all? I'm under the impression that because it's a Shorthold Tenancy Agreement and NOT an agricultural one, they are still subject to paying him at least minimum wage on average based on his hours?

Thanks so much for any help you can offer. I'm new to the farming world, so if I've gotten anything wrong, please be kind!

A farm cottage is worth £800/ month? Depending on location.
Plus no need for another car.
£24k sounds a bit low, but take the house into account.
Bank holidays have never featured on farms

 

[kiwi pom]

Is there some rule in the UK about how many hours you can work in a week?
I'm thinking Ag workers can opt out? but what happens if its not in their contract or they weren't asked to opt out? Could they get an employer in trouble?

 

[chipchap]

Time to move on.

 

[betweenthelines]

You can certainly tell by the responses who is a farmer and who is an employee!
I've been on both side of the fence, so here are my thoughts:

There's two issues here, one is the landlord/employer and the rent for the house. The other is the terms & conditions of employment.

One the rent issue, I would say that if the landlord/employer has not asked for the rent for 7 years, he isn't bothered about collecting it and can't suddenly start collecting either the original amount or ask for an increase. He is benefiting from having a member of staff near at hand and sees this as worth more than the rent.

Terms and Conditions of employment are a separate matter. Assuming he has a written Contract, it is just what it says, a Contract between employer & employee setting out the terms of employment-hours worked, remuneration, duties etc. This must comply with Legal requirements which include 28 days holiday/year (28 can include the 8 Bank holidays, but that still leaves 20 days/4 weeks) to be taken at the employer's discretion, so for instance,no holiday during harvest is perfectly legal. As has been said, there is a legal minimum wage. But there are also several restrictions that can affect the hours someone can work, especially if the work unsocial hours or operate machinery. No one can be compelled to work overtime (hours above those specified in the Contract) and employers cannot discriminate against staff who decline to work O/T.
As for "benefits in kind" like firewood etc. I would say that over a period of 7 years these fall within "custom and usage" --employer hasn't said not, so he has by default deemed them fair and acceptable.

Edited to add; If losing your "home" is worrying you, the Local Authority must house you if you are homeless through losing your job. Not ideal, I know, but a short term solution could lead to better things.


That's the legal position, but the reality can be quite different. When I was first put on a salary my then employer said "it only works if neither party counts hours" and he was right. But it sounds like your OH's employer wants to have his cake and eat it. The fact that you have so many questions, indicates the trust has gone, and it's time for your OH to have an uncomfortable conversation. If his employer values him, he'll do a lot to keep him. But IMHO, 24k is only about £12/hr for a 39 hr/wk and having a house rent free is a high price to pay for always being at someone's beck and call.

 

[Flat 10]

2 thoughts, house could be worth £9k a year taking salary equivalent to £33k (over 30% more than mentioned) and apparently there’s a rental agreement for £25/month that’s not been paid.....
That’s not good imo. But I’m probably wrong.

 

[curlietailz]

If the rent hasn’t been paid then isn’t the tenant in arrears and liable to be evicted under Section 21 or Section 8 ???

 

[glasshouse]

If the rent hasn’t been paid then isn’t the tenant in arrears and liable to be evicted under Section 21 or Section 8 ???

No

 

[glasshouse]

2 thoughts, house could be worth £9k a year taking salary equivalent to £33k (over 30% more than mentioned) and apparently there’s a rental agreement for £25/month that’s not been paid.....
That’s not good imo. But I’m probably wrong.

Its worth more than £9k because rent has to be paid after tax has been deducted.

 

[Chae1]

There is a difference between hours worked and hours on the farm
If you live on the farm it’s very difficult to argue wether he actually is working or not

Its very easy to waste hours each day letting you dogs out, going home for a cuppa, talking to your mate who turns up, just watching a bit of cricket or racing etc etc

for a start I’d look at John Nix to see man hours per operation.
that’s a start point to see how many hours per year the average man should take to do a job

off the top of my head I think it works out as one man per 700 acres of arable

if you have less than 700 acres of arable it would be difficult to prove that you worked more hours as the average mancan do

What

Its worth more than £9k because rent has to be paid after tax has been deducted.

How do you know? Have you seen it?

I'd have said 6k £500/month. That's what I get for 1 bedroom flat I rent out in centre of local town.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

£24k + £1k annual bonus - so £25k and a free house worth £9k pa, plus maybe other perks doesn't seem too bad, apart from the holidays
Have I missed anything?

 

[Dairyfarmerswife]

£24k + £1k annual bonus - so £25k and a free house worth £9k pa, plus maybe other perks doesn't seem too bad, apart from the holidays
Have I missed anything?

£25K+£9K = £34000
=£2833 / month.
2833 divided by 400 hours (lets be generous and say it's a 4 week pay period) = £7.08/hour. National minimum wage for 21-24 year olds is £8.20 and for 25 + it's £8.72.

I am writing this from the perspective of an employer. We all know that there are long hours seasonally but there has to be a balance. The OP is asking what is reasonable. It doesn't sound reasonable to me.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

£25K+£9K = £34000
=£2833 / month.
2833 divided by 400 hours (lets be generous and say it's a 4 week pay period) = £7.08/hour. National minimum wage for 21-24 year olds is £8.20 and for 25 + it's £8.72.

I am writing this from the perspective of an employer. We all know that there are long hours seasonally but there has to be a balance. The OP is asking what is reasonable. It doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Ah, I see now
Don't employ anyone, so not up to speed
Is the farmer earning/benefitting from... more than £34k, once all expenses and costs have been accounted for?

 

[curlietailz]

Ah, I see now
Don't employ anyone, so not up to speed
Is the farmer earning/benefitting from... more than £34k, once all expenses and costs have been accounted for?

rule of thumb is the employee has to benefit the business by double their cost
So is the employee bringing in £68k benefit to the business

if not it’s not worth the agro

business should consider downsizing and managing without staff

 

[Dry Rot]

Lots of questions here and an interesting case. I hope the OP keeps us informed.

 

[glasshouse]

What

How do you know? Have you seen it?

I'd have said 6k £500/month. That's what I get for 1 bedroom flat I rent out in centre of local town.

£9k is plucked from the air
Could be more or less
The fact is that under a short assured private let off farm, the rent of say £900 has to be paid with taxed income, so at 20% tax, £1100 has to be earned to pay it .
3 bed farm cottages round here are £1000 pm