G Lime

[Digester Man]

What's the consensus on G Lime vs Quarry Lime. We use a contractor to apply variable rate quarry lime using GPS maps, but have suffered compaction from the weight of the machine particularly when applied onto ploughed ground. Also, availability of the contractor for this specialist job has been an issue. Our fields tend to be large (40-90 acres) and have considerable variability in soil ph within each field so we would like to continue with variable rate application.

We currently run our own tractor with auto steer and variable rate fertiliser spreader (Amazone ZA TS mounted) and are considering whether G Lime might be better as we have control over everything in house, and can hopefully limit our compaction issues whilst getting it spread exactly when we want.

Father says... G Lime, too dear and too short lived. Is he right? Do the economics of G Lime stack up against quarry lime? Discuss....

 

[Macsky]

He’s right.

 

[Brisel]

Your father is correct. G Lime has a place, and you've just described one such place. Ground limestone would be best value but needs to fit your system and be applied pre ploughing unless correcting a serious problem.

 

[cowboysupper]

Your father is correct. G Lime has a place, and you've just described one such place. Ground limestone would be best value but needs to fit your system and be applied pre ploughing unless correcting a serious problem.

Pondering this one too.

What's the price of G-Lime in your part of the world? £105/t delivered round here vs approx £25/t for quarry lime delivered and spread.

150kg/acre of G-Lime is £15.75 plus say £5/acre for spreading (using own equipment) = roughly £21/acre to raise the pH 0.3. The option to spread as when wanted and with lighter machinery. Soils tested every 3 years.

Am I missing something?

 

[Brisel]

You need to look at the Neutralising Value (NV%) which will enable you to compare with other products on a life-for-like basis.

Natural liming materials.

aglime.org.uk

 

[cowboysupper]

You need to look at the Neutralising Value (NV%) which will enable you to compare with other products on a life-for-like basis.

Natural liming materials.

aglime.org.uk

Any easy ways to do a comparison? Local GLime in attached photos. Would have to ask contractor for quarry lime data.

 

[Brisel]

https://www.fas.scot/downloads/tn714-liming-materials-and-recommendations/

The claims of TNV 97% CaCO3 doesn't tally with the table above of NV but they are different standards, not knowing what TNV is. I'm going to defer to the superior knowledge of @Cab-over Pete and @Mounty here.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

TNV is a nonsensical figure dreamed up by salesmen. Ignore it entirely.

NV is the crucial figure together with reactivity if you can get that and how fine bulk lime is ground to. The “fineness” is critical and can make a potentially really good aglime into something very mediocre if it’s too coarse.

If your buying bulk ground lime it will be, by law, AT LEAST 40% 150 micron dust as fine as the g-lime.

Your g-lime seems to be £140/t once you have spread it. So an application rate of 150kg costs £21 per acre to lift pH, as you say, 0.3

If you put 1t/acre of bulk ground lime on @£25/t/acre @ 40% fine dust, that is AT LEAST 400kg of fine dust costing £10. Plus you’ve got the rest of the 600kg working too, a percentage of which could well be less than 150 micron just like the legally required 40%. It will easily lift the pH by 0.5

Do not listen to the sales crap that tells you g-lime will work faster or better. It’s quite simple......

IT ABSOLUTELY CANNOT WORK FASTER OR BETTER, IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME STUFF.

I’ve just had this very conversation less than an hour ago with a 30 year customer who bought some because he didn’t want to use any other contractor and also the salesman convinced him it would work out cheaper and that g-lime would work better. In five years time his pH status will be in a mess unless he puts on AT LEAST 250kg/acre (600+/ha) every year. He’s been advised, by the salesman, to use 150kg and not told to apply each year. No wonder he thinks it’s cheaper.

If your land has been using a regular x amount of kgs/ha of bulk lime over a period of years then it’s likely it will always need that amount, whether that’s in bulk lime or in g-lime.

It’s not complicated. It won’t work better, because it cannot work better. It’s exactly the same stuff.

 

[fermec860]

TNV is a nonsensical figure dreamed up by salesmen. Ignore it entirely.

NV is the crucial figure together with reactivity if you can get that and how fine bulk lime is ground to. The “fineness” is critical and can make a potentially really good aglime into something very mediocre if it’s too coarse.

If your buying bulk ground lime it will be, by law, AT LEAST 40% 150 micron dust as fine as the g-lime.

Your g-lime seems to be £140/t once you have spread it. So an application rate of 150kg costs £21 per acre to lift pH, as you say, 0.3

If you put 1t/acre of bulk ground lime on @£25/t/acre @ 40% fine dust, that is AT LEAST 400kg of fine dust costing £10. Plus you’ve got the rest of the 600kg working too, a percentage of which could well be less than 150 micron just like the legally required 40%. It will easily lift the pH by 0.5

Do not listen to the sales crap that tells you g-lime will work faster or better. It’s quite simple......

IT ABSOLUTELY CANNOT WORK FASTER OR BETTER, IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME STUFF.

I’ve just had this very conversation less than an hour ago with a 30 year customer who bought some because he didn’t want to use any other contractor and also the salesman convinced him it would work out cheaper and that g-lime would work better. In five years time his pH status will be in a mess unless he puts on AT LEAST 250kg/acre (600+/ha) every year. He’s been advised, by the salesman, to use 150kg and not told to apply each year. No wonder he thinks it’s cheaper.

If your land has been using a regular x amount of kgs/ha of bulk lime over a period of years then it’s likely it will always need that amount, whether that’s in bulk lime or in g-lime.

It’s not complicated. It won’t work better, because it cannot work better. It’s exactly the same stuff.

We used it in the past but 300 kg per acre and then it soon needed doing again at 3 years have access to trailed Krm 6 ton spreader so do it our self now

 

[Cab-over Pete]

That sounds about like most folks experience of using it. It just doesn’t last and turns out to be expensive in the long run.

It has its place and it’s good if you’re a control freak too, but for simple economics and practical use it just doesn’t stack up.

Once it got expensive to landfill otherwise useless dusts some bright spark came up with the idea of getting farmers to accept their waste.

 

[Warnesworth]

Once it got expensive to landfill otherwise useless dusts some bright spark came up with the idea of getting farmers to accept their waste.

Interesting comment considering it’s the dust that does the work, even in quarried ground lime.
The thing to remember about granulated lime is that it’s 100% dust so 100% of what you apply does what it’s supposed to. Not 40% at best with Ag lime. And that’s assuming that the ag lime you’ve bought actually meets the spec. I have tested over 30 samples of ag lime from across the country and not one has met the spec. Plus the nice fine dust in your ag lime normally lands on your neighbours field unless being spread on a still day.
So you bought the cheap option. What’s been delivered isn’t the correct spec, the useful bit blows away and you’re left with something akin to road gravel which will neutralise 10% of diddly squat. Now let’s see which one looks good value.
p.s. I don’t sell lime before anyone feels necessary to level that one at me.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I didn’t think you would be long Steve.......

It’s amazing nobody else has noticed what you say before now after at least centuries of using lime. You must be truly revolutionary.

Your opening comment is interesting too. I didn’t suggest the dust in g-lime is no good, I just implied lots of cyclone dust was land filled until somebody devised a way to “add value” to it. It wasn’t a negative comment on the action of the dust itself. If you read my post correctly you will see I’ve said both ground lime and g-lime are exactly the same stuff. I would be a complete idiot to suggest either won’t do the job, wouldn’t I ? Maybe I am.

You say 40% at best. No, the legal requirement is 40% at least. If you’ve got absolute proof to suggest otherwise, post it on this forum.

Lands on your neighbours field you say? What a load of nonsense. Again, you would think somebody would have noticed before. These farmers must be daft, mustn’t they?

It’s no skin off my nose what people decide to use. I really don’t worry if customers of mine use it. Without exception they come back to use ground lime and that’s because the g-lime doesn’t work as well or as cost effectively as a premium quality ground lime.

If you want to go comparing it against “road gravel neutralising 10% of diddly squat” then that would be comparing chalk with cheese. (In which case, the chalk would do a better job, in case you were confused)

Lets not get tedious with this again Steve. I was tagged to give my opinion and I gave facts. Not hearsay or sales crap, facts. I don’t really know why you persist with it if, as you say, you make nothing from the job. Just present the facts and let people decide. They’ll know what’s best after a while.

If you read the sales points on the leaflet posted above, most of the points could be applied to ground lime anyway. G-lime is nothing new or special. Like I keep saying, they are both exactly the same stuff.

If anybody wants me to comment further in a sensible discussion, feel free to ask. If it all gets silly, I’m out.

 

[Warnesworth]

I didn’t think you would be long Steve.......

It’s amazing nobody else has noticed what you say before now after at least centuries of using lime. You must be truly revolutionary.

Your opening comment is interesting too. I didn’t suggest the dust in g-lime is no good, I just implied lots of cyclone dust was land filled until somebody devised a way to “add value” to it. It wasn’t a negative comment on the action of the dust itself. If you read my post correctly you will see I’ve said both ground lime and g-lime are exactly the same stuff. I would be a complete idiot to suggest either won’t do the job, wouldn’t I ? Maybe I am.

You say 40% at best. No, the legal requirement is 40% at least. If you’ve got absolute proof to suggest otherwise, post it on this forum.

Lands on your neighbours field you say? What a load of nonsense. Again, you would think somebody would have noticed before. These farmers must be daft, mustn’t they?

It’s no skin off my nose what people decide to use. I really don’t worry if customers of mine use it. Without exception they come back to use ground lime and that’s because the g-lime doesn’t work as well or as cost effectively as a premium quality ground lime.

If you want to go comparing it against “road gravel neutralising 10% of diddly squat” then that would be comparing chalk with cheese. (In which case, the chalk would do a better job, in case you were confused)

Lets not get tedious with this again Steve. I was tagged to give my opinion and I gave facts. Not hearsay or sales crap, facts. I don’t really know why you persist with it if, as you say, you make nothing from the job. Just present the facts and let people decide. They’ll know what’s best after a while.

If you read the sales points on the leaflet posted above, most of the points could be applied to ground lime anyway. G-lime is nothing new or special. Like I keep saying, they are both exactly the same stuff.

If anybody wants me to comment further in a sensible discussion, feel free to ask. If it all gets silly, I’m out.

Not sure who this 'Steve' is you refer too...? But it ain't me.

'otherwise useless dust' were your words suggesting to me that you think the dust is useless. Lime is not just about NV, reactability is important too. Its the dust that is immediately reactable and does the work.

I said 'akin to road gravel' meaning its size resembles gravel. This will take eons to break down and do very little work.

I think my thoughts are captured perfectly about the useful part of ag lime blowing away in this video (not mine, just found it on youtube, took about 10 seconds) and the wind isn't even blowing too much.

Evidence, plenty as the attached photo shows only 9% of this sample was less that 150 microns. This is one of the better results. I seem to recall I even offered, on this forum, to come and sample some of the lime you supply but you politely declined. I should add that my sieves are very expensive laboratory grade certified to the correct standard. do you offer that service to your customers?

Very little hearsay or sales crap. Just the facts as I find and are illustrated above. No sales crap cos I don't sell it. Just try to give the best advice possible by challenging everything especially received wisdom. Agriculture is constantly changing, sometime for the better, sometimes for the worse. I happen to believe this is a sensible way forward on many levels, not least the fact that the farmer can be confident that he/she is receiving a consistent product that works.

I am not saying it will suit everyone, because it won't. Aglime to the correct spec and spread is a very good product. Granulated lime is also a very good product which bring many benefits also. But as with all quality it costs more.

 

[Chae1]

But you get it back again when your neighbour's are spreading lime?

Don't know about g lime but i have a similar cloud of dust behind me when spreading calciprill with my fertiliser spreader.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Well your name is at the top of your website. If your not Steve Townsend then you are representing him.

Otherwise useless obviously suggests that it’s waste from various different processes. Of course it’s useful for aglime purpose. Like I keep saying, it’s exactly the same stuff. Your insistence to twist my words is all a bit silly.

To my knowledge you have never asked to sample the lime I supply. If you’re trying to back handedly put down my whole business, get on with it. Last time you tried, maybe a couple of years ago, I followed it with a record breaking year, so I won’t be at all worried about anything you say.

If readers aren’t bored with this kind of crap now them I’m sure they soon will be. You carry on.

My apologies to readers for it getting off track again.

I’m out. Anybody can PM or call me anytime they like. That includes you Steve.

 

[Chae1]

Well your name is at the top of your website. If your not Steve Townsend then you are representing him.

Otherwise useless obviously suggests that it’s waste from various different processes. Of course it’s useful for aglime purpose. Like I keep saying, it’s exactly the same stuff. Your insistence to twist my words is all a bit silly.

To my knowledge you have never asked to sample the lime I supply. If you’re trying to back handedly put down my whole business, get on with it. Last time you tried, maybe a couple of years ago, I followed it with a record breaking year, so I won’t be at all worried about anything you say.

If readers aren’t bored with this kind of crap now them I’m sure they soon will be. You carry on.

My apologies to readers for it getting off track again.

I’m out. Anybody can PM or call me anytime they like. That includes you Steve.

There was a chap on a company stand selling granular lime at groundswell with a serious attitude problem. I don't have a problem having a discussion with someone but this chap was basically making out you'd be a idiot to not solely use granular lime on your farm. He really pee'd me off. I walked away while he was still ranting. His colleague was a lot more relaxed about things.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

They do seem to get fanatical.

They actually DO believe it’s something new, exciting and groundbreaking. It’s not......

Altogether now......

IT’S EXACTLY THE SAME FECKING STUFF!!!!!!

 

[Cowcorn]

They do seem to get fanatical.

They actually DO believe it’s something new, exciting and groundbreaking. It’s not......

Altogether now......

IT’S EXACTLY THE SAME FECKING STUFF!!!!!!

Going off topic a bit but LIME in any form is the cheapest input you can buy . Get the ph right and everything else will follow. I always apply 3 ton acre every five years before maize and it shows.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Pondering this one too.

What's the price of G-Lime in your part of the world? £105/t delivered round here vs approx £25/t for quarry lime delivered and spread.

150kg/acre of G-Lime is £15.75 plus say £5/acre for spreading (using own equipment) = roughly £21/acre to raise the pH 0.3. The option to spread as when wanted and with lighter machinery. Soils tested every 3 years.

Am I missing something?

150kg/acre of G lime is not going to raise the pH like that.

 

[deleted user 837354]

They do seem to get fanatical.

They actually DO believe it’s something new, exciting and groundbreaking. It’s not......

Altogether now......

IT’S EXACTLY THE SAME FECKING STUFF!!!!!!

It's ridiculous, how in the fudge does a scattering of 100 or even 200kg of these magic granules have any hope of changing the pH when you and I both know that it takes a tonne of actual lime to see much difference!

I don't know why folk are so keen to spread stuff from fudging bags so much.