High Cholestrol

[Gordy1]

Had a cholestrol test the other day & was told it was on the high side 6.9 where 5 is normal, was thinking about buying a metre so I cloud keep check as I try to get it down just wondering if anyone has ever bought one that can be recommended as there are a lot of different ones on the market some high prices & some low ones anyone ever bought one & was it any good.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Had a cholestrol test the other day & was told it was on the high side 6.9 where 5 is normal, was thinking about buying a metre so I cloud keep check as I try to get it down just wondering if anyone has ever bought one that can be recommended as there are a lot of different ones on the market some high prices & some low ones anyone ever bought one & was it any good.

I've never tried a meter but have a good read around the subject. The "Diet health hypothesis" that cholesterol causes heart disease has been blown to pieces. Cholesterol is essential for the body and cutting it too low can have neurological side effects that you really don't want. Some Statins also have other nasty common side effects.

6.9 isn't really that high anyway if you don't have other high risks.

 

[RS1600BDA]

The NHS moved the limit from 5 to 7 sometime ago. Mine has always been around 7.
I had pains in my chest, this in the end was due to significant high alcohol intake. It did mean I got checked for heart disease and it showed severe blockage in my main artery. 70%.
I had a stressed MRI and it showed the blockages were not causing issues, but could do if ongoing cholesterol levels were not lowered.

In short it is best to get checked further as high cholesterol is no indication of any major issues and can be managed with a good diet. On the other hand a lot could be going on .

 

[Cowabunga]

A high proportion of UK males above a certain age are on statins. They lower cholesterol effectively but by all accounts can cause muscle aches and pains, at least for a while.
I believe that here is a new therapy on the way that will avoid statins.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

A high proportion of UK males above a certain age are on statins. They lower cholesterol effectively but by all accounts can cause muscle aches and pains, at least for a while.
I believe that here is a new therapy on the way that will avoid statins.

There is also evidence that statins cause nerve and brain effects. It would almost be surprising if they didn't as cholesterol is fundamental to nerve signaling. Long term effects that build slowly won't be picked up in monitoring though.

I've been on Atorvastatin for a year now at 80mg dose. In that time my memory for names had got much worse and I've noticed changes in my vision. I can't prove these are related but I can't prove they aren't either. There are loads of studies "proving their effectiveness" which, on closer examination, have all been carefully constructed to create a positive outcome. I've found no studies published on the potential negative neurological impacts of them buy arethen they one of the drug industry's biggest earners so the industry would resist such studies very hard.

 

[puppet]

No point buying a meter as it won't vary each day like your blood sugar will.
Cholesterol is one part of your risk and needs to be calculated along with the others -family history, age, blood pressure, etc
Probably work it out yourself if you have the breakdown of cholesterol or just assume HDL is 1 to give an idea.

Try QRISK or ASSIGN.

 

[Cowabunga]

There is also evidence that statins cause nerve and brain effects. It would almost be surprising if they didn't as cholesterol is fundamental to nerve signaling. Long term effects that build slowly won't be picked up in monitoring though.

I've been on Atorvastatin for a year now at 80mg dose. In that time my memory for names had got much worse and I've noticed changes in my vision. I can't prove these are related but I can't prove they aren't either. There are loads of studies "proving their effectiveness" which, on closer examination, have all been carefully constructed to create a positive outcome. I've found no studies published on the potential negative neurological impacts of them buy arethen they one of the drug industry's biggest earners so the industry would resist such studies very hard.

Sound Like you are just getting old to me. Statins won’t stop that.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

A high proportion of UK males above a certain age are on statins. They lower cholesterol effectively but by all accounts can cause muscle aches and pains, at least for a while.
I believe that here is a new therapy on the way that will avoid statins.

Just gone onto them for last 3 months
Lower dose regime now is advocated as this still lowers cholesterol-but reduces any other side effects
Not had a single side effect

 

[Cowabunga]

Just gone onto them for last 3 months
Lower dose regime now is advocated as this still lowers cholesterol-but reduces any other side effects
Not had a single side effect

What is a low dose? I’ve been on 20mg/day for many years and probably for the first two I had muscle aches. In fact the first product I was prescribed had me in agony and it was changed to Atovastatin [that may not be the correct spelling]

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Sound Like you are just getting old to me. Statins won’t stop that.

That's the point. I have no way to know whether it's just ageing or is being compounded by the Atorvastatin. I accept that sight degrades with age but how fast? So many over 50's are on statins that it could easily be a hidden effect. We don't know.

We were told for decades to swap "unhealthy" butter and cream for "healthy" processed plant based fats to reduce our heart risk. That was based on the effect of statins and plant stenols, their natural equivalents. It's now clear that the "evidence" supporting this was cherry-picked and misinterpreted to support the drug industry and was funded by them. Those ultra-processed plant based fats are now recognised as being very bad for the exact health factors that they were promoted for.

Unbiased scientific studies seldom exist these days in the field of health. I was persuaded to join a medical study at my heart attack by the consultant but I expect it is as much about the payment he will have received for recruiting me and increasing his professional profile by having his name linked to the study as about increasing knowledge about heart attack recovery rates. He's only human.

The original heart health "study" by Ancel Keys leading to the demonising of cholesterol has been regualrly shown to be so biased and unfounded as to be close to scientific fraud. And yet dietary guidlines are still being based on it!

 

[Cowabunga]

That's the point. I have no way to know whether it's just ageing or is being compounded by the Atorvastatin. I accept that sight degrades with age but how fast? So many over 50's are on statins that it could easily be a hidden effect. We don't know.

We were told for decades to swap "unhealthy" butter and cream for "healthy" processed plant based fats to reduce our heart risk. That was based on the effect of statins and plant stenols, their natural equivalents. It's now clear that the "evidence" supporting this was cherry-picked and misinterpreted to support the drug industry and was funded by them. Those ultra-processed plant based fats are now recognised as being very bad for the exact health factors that they were promoted for.

Unbiased scientific studies seldom exist these days in the field of health. I was persuaded to join a medical study at my heart attack by the consultant but I expect it is as much about the payment he will have received for recruiting me and increasing his professional profile by having his name linked to the study as about increasing knowledge about heart attack recovery rates. He's only human.

The original heart health "study" by Ancel Keys leading to the demonising of cholesterol has been regualrly shown to be so biased and unfounded as to be close to scientific fraud. And yet dietary guidlines are still being based on it!

Well its your body. If you are that concerned, just stop taking statins. I'm quite happy taking it.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Well its your body. If you are that concerned, just stop taking statins. I'm quite happy taking it.

I've had that discussion with the cardiac health team but they insist there are other heart health benefits to statins than lower cholesterol. Nobody has yet been able to detail what they are though.

Atorvastatin at 80mg dropped my total cholesterol from 6.7 to 3.2, the lower end of the range considered normal. They now plan to drop my dose to 40mg. I suspect I will agree to continue taking them for now but at 40 or 20mg.

I just feel that people should know that they are not as outright beneficial as claimed by the medical industry.

Cutting the amount of ultra-processed food (anything on the ready meal shelves or in the bakery or desert section of any supermarket these days) you consume is at least as good for your heart health.

 

[Cowabunga]

I've had that discussion with the cardiac health team but they insist there are other heart health benefits to statins than lower cholesterol. Nobody has yet been able to detail what they are though.

I just feel that people should know that they are not as outright beneficial as claimed by the medical industry.
Cutting the amount of ultra-processed food (anything on the ready meal shelves or in the bakery or desert section of any supermarket these days) you consume is at least as good for your heart health.

If that is the case, why are you on relatively high doses of statins if cutting out ready meals and deserts is just as good?

 

[Y Fan Wen]

What is a low dose? I’ve been on 20mg/day for many years and probably for the first two I had muscle aches. In fact the first product I was prescribed had me in agony and it was changed to Atovastatin [that may not be the correct spelling]

I raised my eyebrows at Holwellcourt's 80mg. I started on 20 about 10 years ago and was reduced to 10 last year.

 

[thorpe]

Sound Like you are just getting old to me. Statins won’t stop that.

no they just make you feel older!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

If that is the case, why are you on relatively high doses of statins if cutting out ready meals and deserts is just as good?

It is standard NICE guidance for all heart attack patients to be placed on:

Maximum dose statins
ACE inhibitors
BETA Blockers
Anti-platelet therapy

I have gone along with it for the first year while they determine my "optimum drug regime" and see how I recover.

I feel fine overall and am fitter than before my heart attack but they say I am "severely compromised" in heart function. I am due a heart MRI scan next month to get a better idea just how badly my heart is still affected. After that I will push much harder for my drug regime to change or I will cut my statin dose myself.

Truth is, the cardiac team are measured on my cardiac indicators and don't really care much if my neurology declines as a result of the drugs they prescribe. After my heart attack I found it impossible to take really deep breaths. It could have been due to the heart damage but is a recognised side effect some people get from Tricagrelor, the BETA Blocker they had me on. They couldn't accept my suggestion that I tried stopping it for a week to see if it was actually the cause. When they changed me from Tricagrelor to Ramipril for a medical reason after 6 months my shortness of breath stopped immediately. Each team works in a silo and focusses on just their own criteria.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

That's the point. I have no way to know whether it's just ageing or is being compounded by the Atorvastatin. I accept that sight degrades with age but how fast? So many over 50's are on statins that it could easily be a hidden effect. We don't know.

We were told for decades to swap "unhealthy" butter and cream for "healthy" processed plant based fats to reduce our heart risk. That was based on the effect of statins and plant stenols, their natural equivalents. It's now clear that the "evidence" supporting this was cherry-picked and misinterpreted to support the drug industry and was funded by them. Those ultra-processed plant based fats are now recognised as being very bad for the exact health factors that they were promoted for.

Unbiased scientific studies seldom exist these days in the field of health. I was persuaded to join a medical study at my heart attack by the consultant but I expect it is as much about the payment he will have received for recruiting me and increasing his professional profile by having his name linked to the study as about increasing knowledge about heart attack recovery rates. He's only human.

The original heart health "study" by Ancel Keys leading to the demonising of cholesterol has been regualrly shown to be so biased and unfounded as to be close to scientific fraud. And yet dietary guidlines are still being based on it!

I was chatting to someone who's Phd was funded by a large industrialist, when it looked like the results were not the results he wanted the funding was withdrawn, so she had to do the final year without funding, so there is a lot of bias in "scientific" research!

Dietary advice is like a supertanker, once it is going in one direction it takes ages to turn around.

Best thing to reduce blood pressure etc is cut out sugar and reduce processed carbs like bread, pasta, cakes etc, but that advice never gets given because of the power of the processed food/sugar industry.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I was chatting to someone who's Phd was funded by a large industrialist, when it looked like the results were not the results he wanted the funding was withdrawn, so she had to do the final year without funding, so there is a lot of bias in "scientific" research!

Dietary advice is like a supertanker, once it is going in one direction it takes ages to turn around.

Best thing to reduce blood pressure etc is cut out sugar and reduce processed carbs like bread, pasta, cakes etc, but that advice never gets given because of the power of the processed food/sugar industry.

Changing policy means admitting it was wrong. Governments seem incapable of that these days.

 

[Cowabunga]

Changing policy means admitting it was wrong. Governments seem incapable of that these days.

I disagree. They are changing policy and direction on the Covid lockdown on a weekly basis. And rightly so. Only too little and too late more often than not. They gave up on the appallingly naive 'herd immunity' policy early on but by then the hospitals were filling up and it was panic stations.

 

[puppet]

It is standard NICE guidance for all heart attack patients to be placed on:

Maximum dose statins
ACE inhibitors
BETA Blockers
Anti-platelet therapy

I have gone along with it for the first year while they determine my "optimum drug regime" and see how I recover.

I feel fine overall and am fitter than before my heart attack but they say I am "severely compromised" in heart function. I am due a heart MRI scan next month to get a better idea just how badly my heart is still affected. After that I will push much harder for my drug regime to change or I will cut my statin dose myself.

After my heart attack I found it impossible to take really deep breaths. It could have been due to the heart damage but is a recognised side effect some people get from Tricagrelor, the BETA Blocker they had me on. When they changed me from Tricagrelor to Ramipril for a medical reason after 6 months my shortness of breath stopped immediately.

Ticagrelor is a blood thinner, not a beta blocker, Ramipril a different family again to both. Given for various reasons after heart attack and for variable times