How would you like to be approached with a business proposition?

[Jon Sqs]

Good morning all and hello, this is my first post on the forum. I have joined in the hope of gaining some insight into how farmers would like to be approached for business. I don't know any personally.
I have a simple business proposition:
"If you turn that 4 acres of land next to the river that you currently use for grazing into a lake, I will lease it from you indefinitely for more than the grazing income"
The finer details would then become a negotiation.
I wonder if any farmers or landowners could advise how they would like to be approached with such a proposition from a stranger? Is there anything in particular that you wouldn't like?

Many thanks

Jon

 

[teslacoils]

We don't like the notion that we will be happy to do something simply for more than its basic rent. For example "can I buy that bit of land for my garden? I see arable land is worth £5k an acre so Mr farmer would be ecstatic at £6k".

Better:

"Looking for 4ac by a river for long lease. For use as X. We do all planning etc. Fully insured. Bank references available ".

No disrespect, but we all know what our land is worth and what alternative uses pay. Plus the hassle factor. And given none of us like being hassled on our farms , this is quite high.

 

[cousinjack]

“Lease it indefinitely “. ?

why not just buy a few acres ?

 

[Netherfield]

Stick a million in my bank account, then we can talk

 

[farmerdan7618]

I wouldn't enter into negotiations on that statement. Indefinite lease can be pretty short, and the cost of creating a 4 acre lake is not small.

If you are looking for a lake, it will need to be a lake at the moment. If not, you will need to be prepared to buy.

 

[Jon Sqs]

Thanks for the response.

I should be clear that I am not looking for a "bargain". The lease of lakes by farmers for fishing is a long established model which I believe must be mutually beneficial and leave the landowner knowing it's value as a fishery.

It's also worth noting that I have identified a specific piece of land that I would be enquiring about. Do you think it too presumptive to enquire about a specific piece of land? Perhaps a more general enquiry that could be refined if he showed interest?

I understand from your response that one of the primary issues I would need to address would be how I ensured as little hassle/disruption to the landowner as possible. This to include an overview of maintenance, security, insurances, how many people to have access as well as my own credibility in terms of my ability to meet payments.

I assume a letter would be preferable to an email or a phonecall?

Would you expect to see an offer for the annual leasehold at this point?

Many thanks
Jon

 

[Jon Sqs]

I wouldn't enter into negotiations on that statement. Indefinite lease can be pretty short, and the cost of creating a 4 acre lake is not small.

If you are looking for a lake, it will need to be a lake at the moment. If not, you will need to be prepared to buy.

Indefinite was probably the wrong word. I would anticipate a fixed term, say ten years with a renewal clause. The renewal clause would be important to allow me to invest in the lake.
If an existing suitable lake were available, I would jump at the chance. There are so many angling clubs and syndicates in the Herts/Beds region that I don't believe there is a lake suitable for a fishery that does not have one in place.
I would gladly buy the land; I believed that the farmer would be more attracted by an ongoing revenue stream whilst retaining ownership than a one off lump sum. I'd love to hear others views on that one?

 

[Jon Sqs]

“Lease it indefinitely “. ?

why not just buy a few acres ?

I was under the impression that the farmer would prefer an ongoing enhanced income from the land than a one off lump sum?? I have no solid basis for this impression, only that of all the fisheries I know, none own the lake, only lease. You are the second to suggest purchase over rent so I stand corrected.
My preference would in fact be to buy the land.

 

[farmerm]

If you are not know to the farmer or to his kin then the answer will be no before you even tell him what you are proposing! The best hope could be to befriend him at the local watering hole and only drop in the suggestion of a business arrangement after several beverages have been consumed on perhaps the 10th informal meeting Alternatively do what the friend of a friend did.. go to Thailand, buy a lake for penults, stock it with massive fish, put in accommodation facilities and charge Americans big bucks to come stay and live like a king, or so I am told.

 

[Jon Sqs]

If you are not know to the farmer or to his kin then the answer will be no before you even tell him what you are proposing! The best hope could be to befriend him at the local watering hole and only drop in the suggestion of a business arrangement after several beverages have been consumed on perhaps the 10th informal meeting

This is the response I was afraid of, the 'closed door' to those outside the farming community and that I want to be able navigate. Your suggestion of befriending someone on a sort of targetted basis feels a little underhand to my taste but I appreciate it's probably quite common.
Would you say the overriding sentiment of farmers is "If you are not known to the farmer or to his kin then the answer will be no before you even tell him what you are proposing!"?

 

[Highland Mule]

Have you any idea what legal hoops would be required to turn a grazing field into a lake? I can imagine that it would be quite a challenge with the EA or similar, which might make it more tricky.

Personally, I wouldn't do it as a lease, but might be tempted to sell if it's an outlying field and the offer is good enough. For 4 acres of amenity land, provided there's no current hope value for planning, I'd suggest that you aim to start negotiations at £200k. You also would need to budget for planning, future rates etc.

 

[neilo]

This is the response I was afraid of, the 'closed door' to those outside the farming community and that I want to be able navigate. Your suggestion of befriending someone on a sort of targetted basis feels a little underhand to my taste but I appreciate it's probably quite common.
Would you say the overriding sentiment of farmers is "If you are not known to the farmer or to his kin then the answer will be no before you even tell him what you are proposing!"?

I don't think the 'closed door' is necessarily to anyone outside the farming community, but rather to anyone unknown to the landowner.

Maybe an approach via letter from a local land agent would be considered? A phone call or an email would often be rejected without much consideration I would have thought.

 

[neilo]

I should perhaps mention that we have two 4 ac lakes here (mid-Wales) that aren't fished, and I am open to you buttering me up with gift parcels, seeing as the watering holes aren't open...

 

[Skintagain]

I should perhaps mention that we have two 4 ac lakes here (mid-Wales) that aren't fished, and I am open to you buttering me with gift parcels, seeing as the watering holes aren't open...

I think we might have a few lakes about by tomorrow lunch time looking at the met office!! Does this get me some fine cheeses and a few bottles of beer?

 

[Skintagain]

I was under the impression that the farmer would prefer an ongoing enhanced income from the land than a one off lump sum?? I have no solid basis for this impression, only that of all the fisheries I know, none own the lake, only lease. You are the second to suggest purchase over rent so I stand corrected.
My preference would in fact be to buy the land.

I'd arrange for a letter to be sent through a land agent. They know you mean business and it will be a professional deal if it ever came off.

Any less and you will come across on the same level as the metal detecting brigade - A PITA

 

[Still Farming]

Maybe contact land agents in the area that are known to landowners and maybe point you in right direction of possible "amicable", contacts
Not just angle of buying said area, but the crap associated with it ,possibly may bring, thereafter issues too.

 

[Clive]

Good morning all and hello, this is my first post on the forum. I have joined in the hope of gaining some insight into how farmers would like to be approached for business. I don't know any personally.
I have a simple business proposition:
"If you turn that 4 acres of land next to the river that you currently use for grazing into a lake, I will lease it from you indefinitely for more than the grazing income"
The finer details would then become a negotiation.
I wonder if any farmers or landowners could advise how they would like to be approached with such a proposition from a stranger? Is there anything in particular that you wouldn't like?

Many thanks

Jon

My farm is no different to any other business, "show me the money" and I will decide if its worth the changes and complications that accessing that may bring

 

[lloyd]

I think Highland mule scared him off when
he said start the negotiations at £200k.

 

[farmerm]

This is the response I was afraid of, the 'closed door' to those outside the farming community and that I want to be able navigate. Your suggestion of befriending someone on a sort of targetted basis feels a little underhand to my taste but I appreciate it's probably quite common.
Would you say the overriding sentiment of farmers is "If you are not known to the farmer or to his kin then the answer will be no before you even tell him what you are proposing!"?

Put it from another perspective, what would the owner of an inner city office think if a farmer turned up at his door and suggested he had a business plan to graze livestock in the courtyard. its unfair to say all farmers are closed door but its also fair to say plenty are closed door even to others within their farming community... heck a lot of us struggle to do sensible things like share own equipment with neighbours. One has to be mindful there are all sorts of complications in seemingly simple projects which you may not be aware of... depending on ownship structures etc land use changes can cause large tax complications in certain circumstances.

 

[farmerm]

I think Highland mule scared him off when
he said start the negotiations at £200k.

I would have started much higher! I would expect a 4acre lake would cost considerably more than that. Where is the water for the lake to come from, you can not just extract if from the river, what happens when the river floods?