How would you like to be approached with a business proposition?

[Highland Mule]

I think Highland mule scared him off when
he said start the negotiations at £200k.

What would it take for you lose 4ac to development? Ask what it will be worth once finished and go back from there.

I would have started much higher! I would expect a 4acre lake would cost considerably more than that. Where is the water for the lake to come from, you can not just extract if from the river, what happens when the river floods?

There’s potentially lots of complications, but seemed about right to me for a starter.

 

[betweenthelines]

Lots of chancers seem to be turning up on TFF recently.

Build me a lake, I want a garden beside a canal, somewhere to build a very small house in return for work etc. etc.

 

[Jon Sqs]

I would have started much higher! I would expect a 4acre lake would cost considerably more than that. Where is the water for the lake to come from, you can not just extract if from the river, what happens when the river floods?

I'm still here.....

Mine is a long term plan, so a one off purchase would suit me better commercially than decades of rent.

To address some of the other points above:
I work for a contractor/developer so have some experience in what is required for change of use of land such as planning, EA approval, ecological assessments etc. I know enough to know to employ consultants to deal with these issues. (Don't think that because I work for a developer that this is some clandestine attempt to secure land for housing...this land will never be built on as it floods regularly)
I have selected this site because it will fill naturally once excavated over a period of time.
It will flood.....many fishing lakes do. I will need to fence it to keep otters out. This fence will allow flood water in and out but keep fish stock in as well as otters out.
To the two members that suggested a land agent....thank you, this had not occurred to me and seems the best way forward but in terms of determining if this particular landowner might be amenable and legitimising my approach.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this discussion.

Best regards
Jon

 

[lloyd]

What would it take for you lose 4ac to development? Ask what it will be worth once finished and go back from there.



There’s potentially lots of complications, but seemed about right to me for a starter.

I agree but he's back so perhaps a bit more?

 

[Clive]

I'm still here.....

Mine is a long term plan, so a one off purchase would suit me better commercially than decades of rent.

To address some of the other points above:
I work for a contractor/developer so have some experience in what is required for change of use of land such as planning, EA approval, ecological assessments etc. I know enough to know to employ consultants to deal with these issues. (Don't think that because I work for a developer that this is some clandestine attempt to secure land for housing...this land will never be built on as it floods regularly)
I have selected this site because it will fill naturally once excavated over a period of time.
It will flood.....many fishing lakes do. I will need to fence it to keep otters out. This fence will allow flood water in and out but keep fish stock in as well as otters out.
To the two members that suggested a land agent....thank you, this had not occurred to me and seems the best way forward but in terms of determining if this particular landowner might be amenable and legitimising my approach.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this discussion.

Best regards
Jon

I fail to see what a land agent can add ....... other than cost !

the deal is simple - you need to offer the landowner enough to make him want to do it

as suggested that number is miles away fro "income forgone" and simply the number it takes to get his attention and desire to do it

As my grandfather said, the value of anything is simple what someone is prepared to pay or accept for it

 

[Hfd Cattle]

We recently looked at a farm in Devon which had a useful lake . I would suggest that's the way the OP should approach it this way and then rent out the land he doesn't want to use .
( we weren't looking for a lake ,it just happened to be on the property we looked at )

 

[Jon Sqs]

I fail to see what a land agent can add ....... other than cost !

the deal is simple - you need to offer the landowner enough to make him want to do it

as suggested that number is miles away fro "income forgone" and simply the number it takes to get his attention and desire to do it

As my grandfather said, the value of anything is simple what someone is prepared to pay or accept for it

Hi Clive,

Would you not take more seriously a letter from your local land agent 'on behalf of their client' rather than one on plain paper from a stranger?

Also, I am currently relying on The Land Registry for contact details, the agent may know the farm is in fact now run by the son or a farm manager for example and ensure my letter reaches the right person.

They may we'll also be able to advise on leasehold/sale value to ensure I pitch my offer correctly.

Any recommendations for an agent in Herts/Beds?

Jon

 

[Still Farming]

I fail to see what a land agent can add ....... other than cost !

the deal is simple - you need to offer the landowner enough to make him want to do it

as suggested that number is miles away fro "income forgone" and simply the number it takes to get his attention and desire to do it

As my grandfather said, the value of anything is simple what someone is prepared to pay or accept for it

I think it is a way to "touch base " "foot in the door" ," get off on the right foot" , access to landowner possibly to Start with ,other than dutch auctions running costs up etc etc.
The chap wants to do it correctly from the start possibly rather than marching up to some hooray Henry in his Range rover on a Sunday out driving about with a "back of a fag packet ", "I got an offer Gov," Approach possibly?

 

[Classichay]

id say turning a field into a lake would be a money pit quite literally, and more so. its mining of top soil and it just becomes a nightmare. not to mention the headache of the maintenance of the said 'large pond' and how many scrap cars and dead hookers it may attract once said letter has done a flit or gone bust. its not down to money all the time sadly its down on quality of life i.e. do you want to deal with stupidity 9 months of the year or a drowned fisherman on a lake that may or may not be legal.....

 

[Jon Sqs]

We recently looked at a farm in Devon which had a useful lake . I would suggest that's the way the OP should approach it this way and then rent out the land he doesn't want to use .
( we weren't looking for a lake ,it just happened to be on the property we looked at )

We recently looked at a farm in Devon which had a useful lake . I would suggest that's the way the OP should approach it this way and then rent out the land he doesn't want to use .
( we weren't looking for a lake ,it just happened to be on the property we looked at )

A ready made lake is perfect, they just don't exist in this Herts/Beds region as there are so many clubs and syndicates leasing them already.
Once a club or syndicate is in place, they don't often give up a lease. It's a growing sport and many have waiting lists.
I'm also exploring the route of soon to be dissussed quarries with Tarmac but this has its own issues.

 

[farmerm]

I'm still here.....

Mine is a long term plan, so a one off purchase would suit me better commercially than decades of rent.

To address some of the other points above:
I work for a contractor/developer so have some experience in what is required for change of use of land such as planning, EA approval, ecological assessments etc. I know enough to know to employ consultants to deal with these issues. (Don't think that because I work for a developer that this is some clandestine attempt to secure land for housing...this land will never be built on as it floods regularly)
I have selected this site because it will fill naturally once excavated over a period of time.
It will flood.....many fishing lakes do. I will need to fence it to keep otters out. This fence will allow flood water in and out but keep fish stock in as well as otters out.
To the two members that suggested a land agent....thank you, this had not occurred to me and seems the best way forward but in terms of determining if this particular landowner might be amenable and legitimising my approach.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this discussion.

Best regards
Jon

Sounds like your are better placed than most, I generally treat this kind thread with perhaps too much skepticism but often the come from dreamers with half baked ideas and little understanding of how things really work in the real world.

Semantics but I know choice of words can be critically important in discussions. You have not "selected this site", that assumes far too much, rather you have identified a potential site for your project. You will most likely need to identify a dozen more before you are successful, there will be a willing land owner out there, but the laws of average mean it is probably not the first one you approach! I am sure you know a lot more about fishing pools, flooding and fencing than I. I am genuinely intrigued by the fence that keeps fish in but otters out and doesn't get flattered by flood waters and the debris they carry. It is outside my experience of sheep fences near water ways. I am assuming it must be something more substantial than a typical stock fence with timber posts?

 

[farmerdan7618]

I'm sure the reason that most of the fishing clubs you know don't own their lakes is because they will belong to institutions such as National Trust etc. These won't be for sale, probably ever, but will have the fishing rights leased to clubs. As institutions, they will have a number of these lakes and hence the skills and facilities to run them.

A private farm won't have these skills and facilities, they would already be letting the fishing rights if they did. Your best bet would be to use Google earth and find something that you can see, then have a look to see if it is fished. If not make an offer to the owner.

If you really want to make your own lake, find a field with road access that is out of eyesight of the farm, track down the owner and make an offer to buy.

 

[ollie989898]

The tone of these threads is always incorrect from the outset.

It assumes a farmer:

Needs the cash (many don't).

Wants the hassle (many don't).

Hasn't the time to manage such an enterprise itself (some do).

 

[DrWazzock]

Will creating a lake just for fishing ever pay for itself? It will be very expensive, not impossible but hard work. If it could be combined with an "environmental" or flood alleviation project then it might have legs but creating a lake from scratch and expecting a payback in a reasonable time from fishing alone strikes me as a fairly tall order. Personally I wouldn't want such a third party business within my boundary unless it was on a remote edge. What if it changes hands which it probably will? What about access rights, and maintenance responsibilities?
We had this situation with wind power companies who were really only interested in "dealing" sites once they had got hold of them. Luckily we didn't get involved. Anyway, hope you find something and good luck.

 

[Jon Sqs]

The tone of these threads is always incorrect from the outset.

It assumes a farmer:

Needs the cash (many don't).

Wants the hassle (many don't).

Hasn't the time to manage such an enterprise itself (some do).

Hi Ollie,

I certainly do not mean to be presumptive, I am simply trying to ascertain the most effective way to pitch a business proposal to a farmer by asking farmers.

I think I have already established that I will use a land agent and expect a refusal, but nothing ventured, nothing gained...

Thanks

 

[Hfd Cattle]

Hi Ollie,

I certainly do not mean to be presumptive, I am simply trying to ascertain the most effective way to pitch a business proposal to a farmer by asking farmers.

I think I have already established that I will use a land agent and expect a refusal, but nothing ventured, nothing gained...

Thanks

........and it's cost you nothing to ask for opinions !

 

[ifindoubtflatout]

S

Good morning all and hello, this is my first post on the forum. I have joined in the hope of gaining some insight into how farmers would like to be approached for business. I don't know any personally.
I have a simple business proposition:
"If you turn that 4 acres of land next to the river that you currently use for grazing into a lake, I will lease it from you indefinitely for more than the grazing income"
The finer details would then become a negotiation.
I wonder if any farmers or landowners could advise how they would like to be approached with such a proposition from a stranger? Is there anything in particular that you wouldn't like?

Many thanks

Jon

Stick an advert in one of the large circulation farming / landowner magazines
Such as CLA
Or NFU or Farmers Weekly

then interested parties will contact you

 

[cousinjack]

The tone of these threads is always incorrect from the outset.

It assumes a farmer:

Needs the cash (many don't).

Wants the hassle (many don't).

Hasn't the time to manage such an enterprise itself (some do).

You forgot : would do it if the promised income per acre was more than achieved currently ( many would not count this as a main criteria)

 

[Dry Rot]

I fail to see what a land agent can add ....... other than cost !

the deal is simple - you need to offer the landowner enough to make him want to do it

as suggested that number is miles away fro "income forgone" and simply the number it takes to get his attention and desire to do it

As my grandfather said, the value of anything is simple what someone is prepared to pay or accept for it

Because many of the bigger land owners employ professionals to run their businesses? If I wanted to contact as many land owners as possible, or landowners with as many acres as possible, I would approach some of the bigger land agency firms. They are likely to have clients on their books who are looking for new income streams. And if they don't, they probably know where to find them.

Some landowners will be trusts or ownerships comprising several, perhaps many, individuals. A family trust is unlikely to sell but might agree to a lease. I've heard the remark, "We don't sell land" more than a few times in my life. Not much to be gained by approaching each share holder one at a time but it could be a different story if a project was put forward by the professional managing the operation at one of the regular meetings.

The best way to get an answer is to ask the question. How you go about that is another matter!

 

[Hfd Cattle]

Plenty of lakes around the country this morning