Holsteinfriesian90
Member
- Location
- Cornwall
Just looking through at bulls to use on the dairy cows this winter and was wondering how accurate the ebvs are for the breed? Are they worth taking note of or not? Thanks.
Limousine ebv.
- Thread starter Holsteinfriesian90
- Start date
M-J-G
Member
Compared to the dairy EBVs you'll be used to, beef EBVs are atrociously poor.
100 progeny will be classed as a pretty well proven beef bulls and pretty much all data is from pedigree breeders who rarely admit to having poor calvings.
100 progeny will be classed as a pretty well proven beef bulls and pretty much all data is from pedigree breeders who rarely admit to having poor calvings.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Accuracy is not a breed thing, it is down to the amount of data that has been analysed for that bull, and his progeny. Some within any breed will always have more accurate ebvs than others.
I haven’t looked at bull ebvs for several years, but is there not an accuracy figure quoted? It might not be in the heavily edited semen/sales catalogue of course, but it should be on the breed analysis somewhere. The higher accuracy the better, obviously.
If these are AI bulls, they will all be above average. The only EBV which is of any importance is ''Calving Ease EBV''. It's the measure of how easy his own calves will be born.
The figure might not be too reliable, but in general, a bull with better figures should be preferable to one with poorer figures.
If you know the AI people, one of their more experienced technicians might be able to offer some guidance.
The figure might not be too reliable, but in general, a bull with better figures should be preferable to one with poorer figures.
If you know the AI people, one of their more experienced technicians might be able to offer some guidance.
M-J-G
Member
I've been saying this for 20+ yearstalking with the genus rep the other week, their work with progeny testing beef on dairy sires (1000's of progeny) has proved beef EBV's to be.
How could they possibly be any good with such small quantities of data.
The system has basically got a hole in the fuel line.
Kentishfarmer
Member
Recently bought a bull from a Limousin breeder who said he couldn't get anything like the expected performance out of calves born from semen bought in from high EBV bulls. He thought too many breeders had been economical with the truth in their data recording in order to make a quick buck
- Location
- Cumbria
A bull is only half the herd.....
Kentishfarmer
Member
Well I must have bought from a dud herd then
AI this year to 3-4 different lim bulls, they will undoubtedly perform differently on dairy cows than sucklers, then next year narrow down to the bull that suits your cows.
To put the accuracy values for beef EBVs on the same playing field as dairy PTAs which are shown with a reliability figure you need to square the accuracy. For example a 50% accuracy is equivalent to 25% reliability (0.5 squared). IMO Beef EBVs are typically too low in reliability for widespread use on dairy cows. There will be good news stories, but there will
also be bad.
AGN76
Member
- Location
- north Wales
Hamlet. But be quick, he's getting on now.
Holsteinfriesian90
Member
- Location
- Cornwall
Used him calves nothing to get excited about.
The problem with calving ebv’s is that they’ve been produced within pedigree herds. These bulls will calve easier when bred pure compared to use on commercial sucklers or dairy cows as heterosis will increase the birth weights.talking with the genus rep the other week, their work with progeny testing beef on dairy sires (1000's of progeny) has proved beef EBV's to be
Use a proven bull, or if not, one without a lot of bone.
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
My guess would have been that there would be high incidence of calving issues in the pedigree herds due to the more muscular build and possibly smaller pelvis relative to size of a pedigree Limousin cow? Of course, whether these problems are reported is another matter!
Do the big semen companies not do calving surveys of new bulls anyway, which would be of greater relevance?
Jdunn55
Member
- Location
- Helston, cornwall
To be quite Frank, they're an absolute waste of time and money and arent worth the paper they're written on.
Was looking at using blues but was only interested in easy calving ones, had it narrowed down to 3 bulls until I realised how many calves the Ebv's were based off.
1 had 3 daughters, 1 had 5 and 1 had 7. So they had absoulutely no idea if they were easy calving or not and were all but lying by printing it in the catalogue.
Stuck with limos, who as a breed are much easier calving than blues.
We used onslow on our cows this year if it helps. Very good calves and decent sized at birth. Ours have muscled up very nicely but not sure if he will be as good on dairy.
Was looking at using blues but was only interested in easy calving ones, had it narrowed down to 3 bulls until I realised how many calves the Ebv's were based off.
1 had 3 daughters, 1 had 5 and 1 had 7. So they had absoulutely no idea if they were easy calving or not and were all but lying by printing it in the catalogue.
Stuck with limos, who as a breed are much easier calving than blues.
We used onslow on our cows this year if it helps. Very good calves and decent sized at birth. Ours have muscled up very nicely but not sure if he will be as good on dairy.
Holsteinfriesian90
Member
- Location
- Cornwall
Yeh I normally choose a couple of young limo bulls a year send back the survey and they give you a couple of another young bull.
Don't happen to have any photos do you? Had to use Onslow and Nation this year due to AI van not having many options a few times. What type cows have you had them out of?
Jdunn55
Member
- Location
- Helston, cornwall
I'll try to get some tomorrow, only had half a dozen calves in the end but pleased with them. They would be out of mostly limousin x cows - little bit of charolais and simmental in our herd along with holstein blood leftover from when we milked.
I'm still serving to him if that helps!
That would be great thanks, but if you're using him again that says enough. Yeh, we're blue x from our old friesans and Sim crossed over them. No Sim straws on the day though