Lleyn sheep ?

[unlacedgecko]

Yeah he has.

Don't fancy following his example?

 

[Wood field]

We crossed Lleyn rams over improved Welsh ewes for 15 years and kept the daughters- they would consistently scan 175% on poor/high ground (1000-1600 feet) with no flushing or mineral drenching/blous. Put Char/Tex tups over them and lambed outside no bother. Reared tidy enough lambs and plenty of them.
They had quite enough triplets for our system- about 5% probably. Also some of the rams we bought in later ewes weren’t the best on their feet and this showed in the daughters- looking back this could have been solved with being fussier choosing ram breeders I’m sure.
Gone away from them and moved to shedders. Tried Easycare and Exlana- Jury is still out on hardiness though. Also can’t get them to scan over 130% no matter what we do- think the weather must be knocking them back when we tup in November.
Looking back there wasn’t much wrong with the Lleyn x welsh ewes for where we farm. Still got a handful left which have gone to the ram this year which are 8 years old. The wife says we need to go back to them- she does the accounts and says we need to be selling a lot more lambs!

That’s both interesting and worrying Just put easycares over our chev Welsh cross!

 

[unlacedgecko]

We crossed Lleyn rams over improved Welsh ewes for 15 years and kept the daughters- they would consistently scan 175% on poor/high ground (1000-1600 feet) with no flushing or mineral drenching/blous. Put Char/Tex tups over them and lambed outside no bother. Reared tidy enough lambs and plenty of them.
They had quite enough triplets for our system- about 5% probably. Also some of the rams we bought in later ewes weren’t the best on their feet and this showed in the daughters- looking back this could have been solved with being fussier choosing ram breeders I’m sure.
Gone away from them and moved to shedders. Tried Easycare and Exlana- Jury is still out on hardiness though. Also can’t get them to scan over 130% no matter what we do- think the weather must be knocking them back when we tup in November.
Looking back there wasn’t much wrong with the Lleyn x welsh ewes for where we farm. Still got a handful left which have gone to the ram this year which are 8 years old. The wife says we need to go back to them- she does the accounts and says we need to be selling a lot more lambs!

I'll sell you some shedding inverdale rams. That will put 60% on their daughter's scan.

 

[neilo]

We crossed Lleyn rams over improved Welsh ewes for 15 years and kept the daughters- they would consistently scan 175% on poor/high ground (1000-1600 feet) with no flushing or mineral drenching/blous. Put Char/Tex tups over them and lambed outside no bother. Reared tidy enough lambs and plenty of them.
They had quite enough triplets for our system- about 5% probably. Also some of the rams we bought in later ewes weren’t the best on their feet and this showed in the daughters- looking back this could have been solved with being fussier choosing ram breeders I’m sure.
Gone away from them and moved to shedders. Tried Easycare and Exlana- Jury is still out on hardiness though. Also can’t get them to scan over 130% no matter what we do- think the weather must be knocking them back when we tup in November.
Looking back there wasn’t much wrong with the Lleyn x welsh ewes for where we farm. Still got a handful left which have gone to the ram this year which are 8 years old. The wife says we need to go back to them- she does the accounts and says we need to be selling a lot more lambs!

She might be right. I love the idea of doing away with wool, but it simply can’t be at the expense of too much output.
Assuming nothing else has changed, dropping from 175% to 130% (and I’ve heard of several Lleyn flocks that dumped them because their prolificacy had dropped similarly over the years tbf) is taking a lot more off the bottom line than dealing with wool imo.

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

She might be right. I love the idea of doing away with wool, but it simply can’t be at the expense of too much output.
Assuming nothing else has changed, dropping from 175% to 130% (and I’ve heard of several Lleyn flocks that dumped them because their prolificacy had dropped similarly over the years tbf) is taking a lot more off the bottom line than dealing with wool imo.

I don’t understand this obsession with wool

 

[glensman]

She might be right. I love the idea of doing away with wool, but it simply can’t be at the expense of too much output.
Assuming nothing else has changed, dropping from 175% to 130% (and I’ve heard of several Lleyn flocks that dumped them because their prolificacy had dropped similarly over the years tbf) is taking a lot more off the bottom line than dealing with wool imo.

Lleyns flocks with poor proflicy.... hmmmm

 

[neilo]

Lleyns flocks with poor proflicy.... hmmmm

Most definitely. The breed had a problem with litter sizes historically, which was a common complaint amongst more commercial flocks.

As a result, a lot of ‘pedigree’ breeders have actively selected against prolificacy, avoiding keeping anything born a triplet, etc.
Having seen the effect rams from those flocks have had on prolificacy in commercial flocks, particularly where they have been on higher/harder ground than those pedigree breeders, I would suggest that they have gone too far the other way.
I know of one, only ever buying top index Lleyn rams in, that went from 180% scanning to 130% over 10-12 years, with nothing else changing radically. He’s one of the ones mentioned earlier, that now runs Romneys.

 

[ringi]

Tried Easycare and Exlana- Jury is still out on hardiness though. Also can’t get them to scan over 130% no matter what we do- think the weather must be knocking them back when we tup in November

Would Chevease work for you?

 

[Sheepfog]

What’s people’s thoughts on these sheep, what could be a better breed to have on grassy rough ground ?

Running some Logie ewes bought from Logie Durno, which are basically a Lleyn with a splash of continental blood added several generations back.

Very pleased with them. Lamb outside no problem, hold condition on average pasture and can take their lambs to decent weights (45-50Kg) which pure Lleyns will struggle to do.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Just look at proper Romney like @Hilly these will give you a reasonable lambing % and lambs that have weight. The Lleyn lambs never weigh well enough on their own unless crossed with a decent terminal.
The Romney will do it without crossing.

If the fleece was worth more than £10 would you want to change to shedders, saw some 45kg Easycares ram lambs in the market today which made £85.00. Looked like goats and were lean.

 

[Optimus]

Most definitely. The breed had a problem with litter sizes historically, which was a common complaint amongst more commercial flocks.

As a result, a lot of ‘pedigree’ breeders have actively selected against prolificacy, avoiding keeping anything born a triplet, etc.
Having seen the effect rams from those flocks have had on prolificacy in commercial flocks, particularly where they have been on higher/harder ground than those pedigree breeders, I would suggest that they have gone too far the other way.
I know of one, only ever buying top index Lleyn rams in, that went from 180% scanning to 130% over 10-12 years, with nothing else changing radically. He’s one of the ones mentioned earlier, that now runs Romneys.

Sounds like my Lleyns put bfl x Tex over them this year see if I can get the lambing % up

 

[JHT]

I'll sell you some shedding inverdale rams. That will put 60% on their daughter's scan.

I could be interested! How are they bred?

 

[unlacedgecko]

I could be interested! How are they bred?

Commercial shedding composite. Incorporates texel, Cheviot and easycare.

2ths will be available autumn 2024.

 

[JHT]

She might be right. I love the idea of doing away with wool, but it simply can’t be at the expense of too much output.
Assuming nothing else has changed, dropping from 175% to 130% (and I’ve heard of several Lleyn flocks that dumped them because their prolificacy had dropped similarly over the years tbf) is taking a lot more off the bottom line than dealing with wool imo.

Please don’t tell her she’s right- she doesn’t need any encouragement

 

[JHT]

Would Chevease work for you?

I’m tempted by them for hardiness- can’t think they’d do much for the lambing % though. Will almost certainly go down the ChevEase ram or some sort of shedding Texel ram avenue next autumn. I’ve invested a fair bit of time and money in the shedding sheep, 500 of them gone to the ram this year. but this will probably be the last throw of the dice.

 

[neilo]

I’m tempted by them for hardiness- can’t think they’d do much for the lambing % though. Will almost certainly go down the ChevEase ram or some sort of shedding Texel ram avenue next autumn. I’ve invested a fair bit of time and money in the shedding sheep, 500 of them gone to the ram this year. but this will probably be the last throw of the dice.

There’s no reason at all that shedding ability can’t be bred into any type of sheep at all, it’s just that thus far they, dare I say it, haven’t been selected by ‘shepherds’ in the traditional sense.

There’s absolutely no reason that shedding sheep can’t be bred for prolificacy, performance, conformation, or even pretty spots if that tickles your fancy.

I hope that there are enough proper shepherds leaning that way that they won’t all be bred from a spreadsheet, or by folk that aspire to O grades, within the next few years. A prolonged period of negative margins on wool will only accelerate that.

I quite like my shedding Texel crosses, as a type, but obviously you could easily go too far down that road and reduce lambing ease. Plenty of folk are starting to breed along similar lines, which will bring more mainstream types out that shed, hopefully.
Shedding certainly can’t come at the expense of performance though, imo, if bills need paying.

 

[Jerry]

Running some Logie ewes bought from Logie Durno, which are basically a Lleyn with a splash of continental blood added several generations back.

Very pleased with them. Lamb outside no problem, hold condition on average pasture and can take their lambs to decent weights (45-50Kg) which pure Lleyns will struggle to do.

Just looked back at my records. Those lambs above were 46kg and 46.5kg. No creep. So I’m happy to say my ewes will take lambs to 45kg plus easy enough.

One advantage of a Lleyn is the ewe, if the right sort, does not need to be a big 80kg monster to rear 90kg of lambs. The flip side is you loose on the cull side of things but she’s eaten less in her life. I moved away from Suffolk mules and increased ewe numbers on same ground by about 15% so a big efficiency gain.

 

[Estate fencing.]

Don't fancy following his example?

Not really, I like my fences not wrecked by itching sheep and I might sell the flock in a couple of years and cheviots would sell better imo.

 

[Sheepfog]

Just looked back at my records. Those lambs above were 46kg and 46.5kg. No creep. So I’m happy to say my ewes will take lambs to 45kg plus easy enough.

One advantage of a Lleyn is the ewe, if the right sort, does not need to be a big 80kg monster to rear 90kg of lambs. The flip side is you loose on the cull side of things but she’s eaten less in her life. I moved away from Suffolk mules and increased ewe numbers on same ground by about 15% so a big efficiency gain.

To be fair I’m talking pure Logie lambs not terminal sire crosses. But you obviously have some good Lleyns. But they’re hard to find!

I think our Logie ewes would be around 70Kg, so certainly not monsters.

 

[Ysgythan]

My brother used to buy Lleyns as embryo recipients because they are mostly MV accredited. He hates them.