Small Holding which would like an extra bit of help or security on a parcel of land?

[Astridricka]

Hi there - any farm or small holding which has a modicum of space (ca.12m x 10m) I have a mobile wood workshop and T.H.O.W. (Tiny Home on Wheels) to site for about 1-2 years while the later is being finished inside before a site near family comes available.
This could be of use for any bits of land which may benefit from extra security by someone being/working there. I am "farm-aware" enough not to make a nuisance of myself but rather be of help if needed. I grew up in a rural community where everyone helped to get things done.
I had a brilliant space agreed with great potential for me and the owners, which sadly fell apart in the last minute. So hoping to get somewhere before the weather becomes unfriendly.
I can send pictures of the workshop and facsimile of the THOW if of interest.

 

[betweenthelines]

Am I the only one getting feed up with people who want something for free (shooting, metal detecting or in the above case, somewhere to live) coming on TFF and making it sound like they're offering farmers some great deal -free pest control, free "security" -rather than them just being after something for nothing?

Do these wannabe freeloaders think farmers are a bunch of Country bumkins, there to be exploited?

What next: " Hi, I know you farmers are busy people so I'm willing to offer a FREE I bonk your Mrs Service, so that after a hard day toiling in the fields, you don't have to worry about keeping the other half satisfied as well"

 

[theboytheboy]

A location would be a good idea

 

[Coximus]

Am I the only one getting feed up with people who want something for free (shooting, metal detecting or in the above case, somewhere to live) coming on TFF and making it sound like they're offering farmers some great deal -free pest control, free "security" -rather than them just being after something for nothing?

Do these wannabe freeloaders think farmers are a bunch of Country bumkins, there to be exploited?

What next: " Hi, I know you farmers are busy people so I'm willing to offer a FREE I bonk your Mrs Service, so that after a hard day toiling in the fields, you don't have to worry about keeping the other half satisfied as well"

interesting point - I was recently approached for much the same thing and it was apparent how alot of idealistic individuals have a perception of farmers as all run ragged and in desperate need of help and are burdened by the job - and yet these same individuals want to shoe horn in and relieve you of the job of farming. When you talk step by step through with them, they suddenly seem to realise what they are asking is for someone to give them something, for nothing, that allows them to skip all the steps of proving themselves that an existing farmer or land based worker has been through. It was interesting how many of them have business plans which are entirely dependent on someone else subsidizing them.

What I took away from uit was we as farmers need to scream louder about what it is we do, how we do it and educate so that we dont a) have to rebut unrealistic and occasionaly parasitic propositions, and b) have more positive offers for all parties made
(I recently allowed a welbeing and forest school group onto land I control - its worked great, theyve laid hedges, planted trees, cleared balsam and paid to be their..... And they made money for themselves too and I invited them back)

 

[Astridricka]

A location would be a good idea

Yep - there is a certain flexibility as to location. - Essex or surrounding counties.
Knowing that what I'm asking is no small matter I was happy to consider opportunities beyond the easy distance. But realise this is not helpful.

 

[Highland Mule]

What next: " Hi, I know you farmers are busy people so I'm willing to offer a FREE I bonk your Mrs Service, so that after a hard day toiling in the fields, you don't have to worry about keeping the other half satisfied as well"

Oh please, delete this before the honourable member (!) for Anglesey gets any ideas....

 

[SteveHants]

…......It was interesting how many of them have business plans which are entirely dependent on someone else subsidizing them.

 

[Astridricka]

Am I the only one getting feed up with people who want something for free (shooting, metal detecting or in the above case, somewhere to live) coming on TFF and making it sound like they're offering farmers some great deal -free pest control, free "security" -rather than them just being after something for nothing?

Do these wannabe freeloaders think farmers are a bunch of Country bumkins, there to be exploited?

What next: " Hi, I know you farmers are busy people so I'm willing to offer a FREE I bonk your Mrs Service, so that after a hard day toiling in the fields, you don't have to worry about keeping the other half satisfied as well"

Hi there Betweenthelines,
I'm sure you are not the only one who's fed up of idealists and freeloaders. And thank you for even bothering to read this thread and giving a reply. I'm not asking something for nothing but assumed that rent would be implied and specific agreements would be worked out once there was an interest in principle.
Where I have had contact with land owners the security issue was often brought up and my thought was that this would be an added bonus - Not the whole deal. - Difficult to say enough not too much in a written post.

As it turns out I have spend a bit of time reading posts on this platform to update my respect for the farming industry and I sadly have seen the gulf between public opinions and farming realities only seem to have widening which is sad.
So I fully get the anger which my post could spark as neither of us knows any more of each other than general ideas and limited information.
But having said that I'm glad you said it because it helps me to know how bad the issue might be in different areas (or UK wide for all I know)

I took the risk to put my request out there also knowing how diverse the farming community can be and a matching need/interest might just be possible.

Thanks again for your honest thoughts.

 

[Coximus]

Hi there Betweenthelines,
I'm sure you are not the only one who's fed up of idealists and freeloaders. And thank you for even bothering to read this thread and giving a reply. I'm not asking something for nothing but assumed that rent would be implied and specific agreements would be worked out once there was an interest in principle.
Where I have had contact with land owners the security issue was often brought up and my thought was that this would be an added bonus - Not the whole deal. - Difficult to say enough not too much in a written post.

As it turns out I have spend a bit of time reading posts on this platform to update my respect for the farming industry and I sadly have seen the gulf between public opinions and farming realities only seem to have widening which is sad.
So I fully get the anger which my post could spark as neither of us knows any more of each other than general ideas and limited information.
But having said that I'm glad you said it because it helps me to know how bad the issue might be in different areas (or UK wide for all I know)

I took the risk to put my request out there also knowing how diverse the farming community can be and a matching need/interest might just be possible.

Thanks again for your honest thoughts.

To help, provide more detail - What do you want to do on the land, how long for, and how will you survive doing it?
Once we know that we can decide wether your a fit and viable and then the £ discussion can start. I am still not clear on what it is you do.

 

[Danllan]

Hi there Betweenthelines,
I'm sure you are not the only one who's fed up of idealists and freeloaders. And thank you for even bothering to read this thread and giving a reply. I'm not asking something for nothing but assumed that rent would be implied and specific agreements would be worked out once there was an interest in principle.
Where I have had contact with land owners the security issue was often brought up and my thought was that this would be an added bonus - Not the whole deal. - Difficult to say enough not too much in a written post.

As it turns out I have spend a bit of time reading posts on this platform to update my respect for the farming industry and I sadly have seen the gulf between public opinions and farming realities only seem to have widening which is sad.
So I fully get the anger which my post could spark as neither of us knows any more of each other than general ideas and limited information.
But having said that I'm glad you said it because it helps me to know how bad the issue might be in different areas (or UK wide for all I know)

I took the risk to put my request out there also knowing how diverse the farming community can be and a matching need/interest might just be possible.

Thanks again for your honest thoughts.

Right, take all this without offence, for none is intended...

If you are on someone's land for the sort of period you mention, you will have and gain certain rights; some will be explicit, if you have a contract, and some will be implicit, being imposed by statute. The point is, it could be hard to get rid of you if someone wants to, and any difficulty will increase exponentially if you have or incur a disability, are aged or have a child - particularly one who starts at a local school. And these just for starters...

Of course, none of that may apply to you, but it could, and even if you voluntarily remove some terms from a standard contract, there are others that will remain regardless. Add to these things the liability that the landowner incurs by having you - with his agreement - on his property, and things start to look more complicated still, and less desirable...

There are ways some of these problems could be mitigated, but you are asking quite a lot. Just saying...


(Just to clear up one thing: what's the difference between a THOW and a caravan? )

 

[Astridricka]

To help, provide more detail - What do you want to do on the land, how long for, and how will you survive doing it?
Once we know that we can decide wether your a fit and viable and then the £ discussion can start. I am still not clear on what it is you do.

Hi Coximus,

I am currently situated in Essex and have 3 jobs. I work part time for a charity in trauma recovery and complex parenting support. I have built up a small but viable woodworking business over 14 years providing specialised equipment to therapists all over the UK and Ireland. And I work in private practice for the past 7 years. My wood workshop was to move into two properly modified 20 foot High Cube containers last month until someone wanted something for nothing from me and I had to change plans at the very last minute.
I won't bore you with why I do not own my own bricks and mortar at this point and why I am working on a sustainable alternative. The workshop and Tiny are due to move near to family in the new Forest when that site becomes available in about 1-2 years.
The tiny home build will be started in spring (April-May 2021) as the shell is being built for me by then and I will need to re-finish the interior outfitting myself. the shell will be on a specialised double axle chassis and is classed as a "large tourer" and as such does not require planning permissions as other things do. ( I can provide further documentations on this)
The physical and eco footprint of this is surprisingly small and yet effective.
So currently I have the containers and the THOW still on order but also on hold (see reasons above) while I sort out a new and viable situation.
I have also made contact with local farmers and waiting to hear back as a couple of these have already converted sections of their yard for a variety of working businesses. But I am under a bit of a time pressure as I need to vacate in October and need to maximise my time to get things done in good order.
The pictures attached are my current workshop set up and a facsimile of the THOW (Tiny Home On Wheels) I will be working on.
The crux I guess is that land laws make things very tricky indeed and that's why you will get inundated as landowners by a huge variety of requests I'm sure.
In my case the container workshop and Tiny home sited together can work in harmony as it can be classed as a "work in progress" situation - The Tiny is there because of the workshop and vice versa.
Metered electric is needed, and if possible water would be useful. For blackwater and grey water there are useful alternatives which can be worked out if normal sewage is not viable.

I hope I have answered your questions somewhat let me know if you need any further details.

 

[Astridricka]

Right, take all this without offence, for none is intended...

If you are on someone's land for the sort of period you mention, you will have and gain certain rights; some will be explicit, if you have a contract, and some will be implicit, being imposed by statute. The point is, it could be hard to get rid of you if someone wants to, and any difficulty will increase exponentially if you have or incur a disability, are aged or have a child - particularly one who starts at a local school. And these just for starters...

Of course, none of that may apply to you, but it could, and even if you voluntarily remove some terms from a standard contract, there are others that will remain regardless. Add to these things the liability that the landowner incurs by having you - with his agreement - on his property, and things start to look more complicated still, and less desirable...

There are ways some of these problems could be mitigated, but you are asking quite a lot. Just saying...


(Just to clear up one thing: what's the difference between a THOW and a caravan? )

Hi Dallan,
Thank you so much for filling me in on the explicit and implicit rights and statues etc. Thats really helpful. Unless you are in a certain industry the "finer" or not so finer points are not going to be known. And it's so easy to have rose coloured specs.

When it comes to the difference between a THOW and a caravan - while both are for temporary or permanent living and on wheels and therefore have the same classification in terms of planning permission (not needed) the difference lies in building materials and longevity. A THOW is roadworthy and has to be in line with weight and hight restrictions just like a caravan or any other towable trailer.
A caravan is usually your an all-in-one ready outfitted unit mainly produced out of fibreglass plastics and some MDF components. their lifespan is around 10-15 years before you end up with a new leak every day. Fibreglass for tourers is useful as its light and flexible for getting around.
A THOW is more from the shepherds hut tradition and built on a heftier chassis, with timber framed and cladded outer structure and less for whizzing about the place but more for flexible living. Having said that some folk do have THOWS which are super small and whizzy in every sense of the word. The major benefit of a THOW is the entire build can last as long as a house if looked after properly and everything is extremely renewable. The insulation and utilities can vary hugely on how eco committed one wishes to be. Some THOWs are super styled and trendy where as others are more down to earth alternatives to bricks and mortar.

I have attached a picture of a facsimile of the one I have on order - I will only be getting the outer structure and I will then kit it out myself on the inside. All insurable jobs like plumbing and electric I will get qualified people to do so I can insure the build properly.
Speaking of insurance - in thinking about what you shared above - I am already with liability insurance for my own business and assumed that this would be sufficient coverage to alleviate any such responsibility to the land owner. I shall give them a ring and find out more.

All the Best

 

[JP1]

Hi there - any farm or small holding which has a modicum of space (ca.12m x 10m) I have a mobile wood workshop and T.H.O.W. (Tiny Home on Wheels) to site for about 1-2 years while the later is being finished inside before a site near family comes available.
This could be of use for any bits of land which may benefit from extra security by someone being/working there. I am "farm-aware" enough not to make a nuisance of myself but rather be of help if needed. I grew up in a rural community where everyone helped to get things done.
I had a brilliant space agreed with great potential for me and the owners, which sadly fell apart in the last minute. So hoping to get somewhere before the weather becomes unfriendly.
I can send pictures of the workshop and facsimile of the THOW if of interest.

PM sent

 

[betweenthelines]

So a more accurate Thread title would be:

"Ad hoc nightwatchman service in exchange for site to pitch mobile home and small business"

Trying to generate interest in a devious manner, does nothing for your credibility or trustworthiness.


By your standards, "Enthusiasts seek secluded location for traditional Country pursuit" would be the correct opening pitch for someone wanting to find a site for dog fighting!

 

[Astridricka]

I think we might be speaking slightly different languages here and that's fine - It was not my intention to create interest by devious means but trying to begin a conversation where more than one possibility could be explored before people dismiss my request out of hand. Or project all sorts of intentions onto my offer/request.

... poor dogs.

 

[DeeGee]

Oh please, delete this before the honourable member (!) for Anglesey gets any ideas....

Quite agree: he has enough ‘ideas’ of his own without the danger of him reading stuff like this......

 

[betweenthelines]

I think we might be speaking slightly different languages here and that's fine - It was not my intention to create interest by devious means but trying to begin a conversation where more than one possibility could be explored before people dismiss my request out of hand. Or project all sorts of intentions onto my offer/request.

... poor dogs.

I don't think you are stupid.

I think you opening pitch was deliberately ambiguous in order to generate interest.

Personally, I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw a T.H.O.W (which is just a caravan by another name)

 

[Wilksy]

Am I the only one getting feed up with people who want something for free (shooting, metal detecting or in the above case, somewhere to live) coming on TFF and making it sound like they're offering farmers some great deal -free pest control, free "security" -rather than them just being after something for nothing?

Do these wannabe freeloaders think farmers are a bunch of Country bumkins, there to be exploited?

What next: " Hi, I know you farmers are busy people so I'm willing to offer a FREE I bonk your Mrs Service, so that after a hard day toiling in the fields, you don't have to worry about keeping the other half satisfied as well"

I resent your 'something for nothing' comments,i shoot for a few farmers (not looking for more shooting by the way) to be fair ones an old mate and others have become mates, who I help out if asked, one I do a fair bit of paid work helping with harvest etc, also the question of x amount of cartridges spent, don't get me wrong I do it because I enjoy it and I'm more than grateful that I have the use of the land, shown with a bottle of something at Christmas.
I get what your saying that requests for shooting etc are angled at 'doing you a favour' tone but its more a mutual beneficial thing, I quite often get a phone call 'can you come? so and so field is blue over' so you go and maybe shoot 10 but you've kept them off all day, and I know that the farmers appreciate that.

 

[Bertram]

Am I the only one getting feed up with people who want something for free (shooting, metal detecting or in the above case, somewhere to live) coming on TFF and making it sound like they're offering farmers some great deal -free pest control, free "security" -rather than them just being after something for nothing?

Do these wannabe freeloaders think farmers are a bunch of Country bumkins, there to be exploited?

What next: " Hi, I know you farmers are busy people so I'm willing to offer a FREE I bonk your Mrs Service, so that after a hard day toiling in the fields, you don't have to worry about keeping the other half satisfied as well"

I’ll read them, and I actually think that the OP here comes across reasonably well, compared to some.

But. Where I think “off you fudge now” is where it inevitably gets to “I’m a one legged voluntary ex-para NHS worker with ptsd from Waterloo, 27 children who I bred accidentally and rely on me to feed them hard won roadkill, 3 disabled mothers, and an allergy to fresh air.”

If they said they’re a bit workshy, partial to a tin of special brew, and pee'd away the family pile on cockfighting, I’d admire their honesty and invite them round.

 

[caveman]

Hi Dallan,
Thank you so much for filling me in on the explicit and implicit rights and statues etc. Thats really helpful. Unless you are in a certain industry the "finer" or not so finer points are not going to be known. And it's so easy to have rose coloured specs.

When it comes to the difference between a THOW and a caravan - while both are for temporary or permanent living and on wheels and therefore have the same classification in terms of planning permission (not needed) the difference lies in building materials and longevity. A THOW is roadworthy and has to be in line with weight and hight restrictions just like a caravan or any other towable trailer.
A caravan is usually your an all-in-one ready outfitted unit mainly produced out of fibreglass plastics and some MDF components. their lifespan is around 10-15 years before you end up with a new leak every day. Fibreglass for tourers is useful as its light and flexible for getting around.
A THOW is more from the shepherds hut tradition and built on a heftier chassis, with timber framed and cladded outer structure and less for whizzing about the place but more for flexible living. Having said that some folk do have THOWS which are super small and whizzy in every sense of the word. The major benefit of a THOW is the entire build can last as long as a house if looked after properly and everything is extremely renewable. The insulation and utilities can vary hugely on how eco committed one wishes to be. Some THOWs are super styled and trendy where as others are more down to earth alternatives to bricks and mortar.

I have attached a picture of a facsimile of the one I have on order - I will only be getting the outer structure and I will then kit it out myself on the inside. All insurable jobs like plumbing and electric I will get qualified people to do so I can insure the build properly.
Speaking of insurance - in thinking about what you shared above - I am already with liability insurance for my own business and assumed that this would be sufficient coverage to alleviate any such responsibility to the land owner. I shall give them a ring and find out more.

All the Best

Clever..... The steps on that "staircase".