Staff holidays

[The Agrarian]

I'm only small time compared to some here. One FT, and me. Some casual labour that drifts in and out, which is not regulated. So my FT guy and I alternate weekends, all year. So 12 on, 2 off. However, we spend every Friday setting things up handy for the weekend so that it's as short and sweet as possible for both of us. Machines do the milking anyway, so it's beds, checks, calves, springers, milk socks, push feed up etc. I do the bedtime checks all through the year, except when I'm out of the country. He gets 28 stat days off, for a five day week. We don't count weekends as they aren't full days, so they are neither days worked nor holidays taken. Therefore, the 12 day stretch sounds a lot, but he has 28 days to take out of that to break it up. If either of us need to take a weekend where we are due on, then we swap weekends by doing the next two in a row or something like that. This means neither of us get hacked off with having to do more weekends than the other. My weekends off aren't true weekends off in the townie sense of course.

Unwritten proviso is that he knows when we are making silage, four times in the summer, and never asks for time off in the usual windows we cut in. Flip side is that I do my best to accommodate him whenever he wants time off, no matter how long or short the notice. He doesn't ask anything silly, and therefore it's extremely rare for me to say no.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Its not uncommon in industry for employers to set factory holiday. Our neighbours, JCB, have factory shutdown for 2 weeks in summer and also over Christmas period. Employees have no choice on those dates.

Quite common on arable farms - usually a shut down over Christmas for a couple of weeks, perhaps one person on call for any loads going out of store.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

I hate everything about staff management, I'm not a natural manager and find it hard but there's no way I'd farm without them. As much as I like cows, I also like days away.

What do you find the most distasteful about people management?

 

[Skintagain]

I'm only small time compared to some here. One FT, and me. Some casual labour that drifts in and out, which is not regulated. So my FT guy and I alternate weekends, all year. So 12 on, 2 off. However, we spend every Friday setting things up handy for the weekend so that it's as short and sweet as possible for both of us. Machines do the milking anyway, so it's beds, checks, calves, springers, milk socks, push feed up etc. I do the bedtime checks all through the year, except when I'm out of the country. He gets 28 stat days off, for a five day week. We don't count weekends as they aren't full days, so they are neither days worked nor holidays taken. Therefore, the 12 day stretch sounds a lot, but he has 28 days to take out of that to break it up. If either of us need to take a weekend where we are due on, then we swap weekends by doing the next two in a row or something like that. This means neither of us get hacked off with having to do more weekends than the other. My weekends off aren't true weekends off in the townie sense of course.

Unwritten proviso is that he knows when we are making silage, four times in the summer, and never asks for time off in the usual windows we cut in. Flip side is that I do my best to accommodate him whenever he wants time off, no matter how long or short the notice. He doesn't ask anything silly, and therefore it's extremely rare for me to say no.

You sound a good team. You will cry if he ever leaves

 

[ollie989898]

You sound a good team. You will cry if he ever leaves

Make he so it doesn't want to leave- profit or equity share?

 

[vantage]

we’ve managed to avoid this so far with everyone being self employed part timers and lots of them. Works quite well as normally everyone can pickup a few more milkings to cover.
where I used to work it was a semi unwritten rule that you don’t go away on your weekend on unless it’s like a wedding where you can’t set the date then we swap.

Same here , 3 self employed milkers, doing 2-4 milkings each. Can’t say it’s ideal as I’m always here either as backup or on my tod, but suits atm. Youngest son is home atm, he’s going to Hartpury for 3 years, then away for more experience so I’ll put up with the current setup for a while!

 

[Cows 'n grass]

that is hard going, im moved tenancys twice to make sure my family are next to me so totally understand! I feel very lucky as a Dad to say iv spent nearly as much time with my children as their mum.

I should add that I don't milk many afternoons so I am usually home or doing young stock work where I take kids with me fro 2/3 in the afternoon.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

What do you find the most distasteful about people management?

I'm a naturally very quiet person and I find it awkward asking other people to do things.

Pre covid I was booked in to do some management training but it never happened.

 

[kiwi pom]

Not sure what the rules are on this, a lot could depend on their contact.
Are their weekends classed as rostered days on or just overtime? So if they are away on a Sunday they're supposed to milk is that classed as annual leave?
There's plenty of companies that restrict when staff can take holidays.
If you've a good team can they work it out amongst themselves?

 

[Bennyhill]

Can you not have a chat with your members of staff to see if they would pick up some extra full weekends but put together a payment package to make it worth their while. You get the benifit of having staff on the farm that know exactly what goes on and can get around the work quickly, or its one more member of staff to allow you to take time off.

 

[Kiss]

Iv always understood your weekends are your weekends you work it or swap it

 

[kiwi pom]

Iv always understood your weekends are your weekends you work it or swap it

I always thought if you worked six days a week then your holidays reflected that so 4 weeks holiday was 24 days not 20. If you take one week off you use six days annual leave?
If the weekend is just overtime and you only get 20 days for your 4 weeks then you're not required to be there at the weekend.
Not sure how it works for 7 days a week?
Could be getting my countries mixed up though.

 

[betweenthelines]

Legal requirement for 28 days annual leave in the UK, @kiwi pom.

Simple right? Not really:

But up to 8 of these 28 days can be Bank Holidays

But BH's don't have to be holidays

But most workers expect 1.5 times or 2.0 times pay for Bank Holidays

Although the whole overtime and double time thing is discrectionary, as there isn't even a set "basic hours" working week. Some employers pay o/t after 40 hours, some 39, some even 37.5. My current "basic" week is 38.75 hours as we get a 45 min meal break. Even had one job where the "basic" week was different in the summer and winter-great when you did a 4.5 day week in winter, not so great when you did longer hours for the same money in the summer!

Annual salary is so much easier, but requires trust on both sides.

 

[thewalrus]

Legal requirement for 28 days annual leave in the UK, @kiwi pom.

Simple right? Not really:

But up to 8 of these 28 days can be Bank Holidays

But BH's don't have to be holidays

But most workers expect 1.5 times or 2.0 times pay for Bank Holidays

Although the whole overtime and double time thing is discrectionary, as there isn't even a set "basic hours" working week. Some employers pay o/t after 40 hours, some 39, some even 37.5. My current "basic" week is 38.75 hours as we get a 45 min meal break. Even had one job where the "basic" week was different in the summer and winter-great when you did a 4.5 day week in winter, not so great when you did longer hours for the same money in the summer!

Annual salary is so much easier, but requires trust on both sides.

5.6 weeks holiday a year. 28 days for someone working a 5 day week.regular overtime should be included in holiday pay.


if someone is working 12 on 2 off

that’s 33.6 days holiday a year

 

[dinderleat]

It’s also the employees choice to take holiday or not, but you can’t roll it into the next year.

 

[Fergieman]

Does anyone pay employee's for holidays not taken?

 

[Beef farmer]

Does anyone pay employee's for holidays not taken?

Yep

 

[dinderleat]

Does anyone pay employee's for holidays not taken?

Depends on the employee and the situation. Here we don’t They have ample opportunity to take holiday I shouldn’t have to hold their hand.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

We have a slightly different set up to @Cows 'n grass. Everyone works 7 on two off and we offer 16 days vacation.

I strongly encourage everyone to take theirs at this time of year but several always want a week at the beginning of deer hunting season which is fine for a spring calving herd. They are not allowed any vacation during calving, breeding or silage harvesting. Although it seems someone always has some sort of mandatory court appearance at inconvenient times.

Right now I have 2 on vacation at the same time and it’s a real struggle. I have had to borrow relief from the other herd to get through. Having people available for relief milking is nearly impossible for most of the year.

Farm owners are understanding with me though. I took a trip this winter after breeding and was gone for 3 weeks. I was still paid during these vacation days. While everyone is replaceable they know I’m not easily replaced and accommodated me no fuss. Also take into account nearly 1/2 of may days off I work through and my daily hours are pretty high.

A perk of my low cost lifestyle is not really needing any income for several years if I don’t want to work. I bargain from a position of power and they know it.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

An interesting difference between countries is that the US does not have mandatory vacation time. It’s up to the employer if they provide that or not. Same with official holiday pay. It’s not mandatory we pay extra for working those.

One thing I forgot to include is that vacation time is accrued with each pay period. We are flexible with this but I’ve had people in the past try and take all their vacation for the year early on with the intention of not coming back. You can usually tell who has this in mind and head it off.