Starting a pedigree flock

[Rich_ard]

If you're only wanting a small flock for showing and selling, then maybe the in-lamb ewe sale at Lockerbie in February would be a place to start. They will be fed obviously, but if you're wanting to sell at the big sales that's almost definitely a necessary evil.

I'm going the opposite route and trying to develop a small stud flock that not only survive, but raise strong lambs without any unnecessary expensive inputs. BUT I have no interest in showing or selling at breeding sales, merely want something that's going to thrive on my hills.

How will you decide on where to buy your stock to start breeding them. Are you hoping to run them as they are or will you cross the pedigree ones with a terminal tup?

 

[neilo]

View attachment 1131752

Ireland uses a system of one to five stars. But it seems both Signet and Ireland is moving to a system of stating the breeding values in money.

Not as far as I’m aware. There was an attempt, a good while ago, to express the overall index values in terms of £.
iirc Suffolks adopted it, Texels adopted it but dropped it quickly, while we (Charollais) rejected it outright.

There has been a new ebv calculated this year, off the back of slaughter data incorporated from RamCompare. That ebv attempts to put a £ value on it, taking into account carcass weight, carcass value and days to slaughter. I would question the actual figure, but there was around £10/lamb difference between the best and worst of the 400 rams used on RamCompare.

I will take this opportunity to (again) mention that one of mine topped it.

 

[AftonShepherd]

I started two years ago just now by picking 10 each of 4 youngest ages out of my 800 hill ewes. Picked ones that I liked, were in good nick and we're still milking when weaned. Used a tup I already had, and kept condition well all year round - too many "need a bite" from early September to be sure they're fit for tupping.

Lambs were tagged and recorded and only twins born unassisted were kept for tups or "stud" replacements. 9 tup lambs kept last year - down to 6 now as I gradually cull any I don't like the look of, or go lame. 22 of the original 40 did well enough to get another year of "luxury", 18 nice gimmers added.

This time last year I bought an Innovis NCC at Carlisle - not sure how high I value their indices but they are undoubtedly forage fed. Not fully drawn next year's stock yet but there should be 11 tup lambs to choose from if they've all survived the summer on the hill.

 

[AftonShepherd]

I started two years ago just now by picking 10 each of 4 youngest ages out of my 800 hill ewes. Picked ones that I liked, were in good nick and we're still milking when weaned. Used a tup I already had, and kept condition well all year round - too many "need a bite" from early September to be sure they're fit for tupping.

Lambs were tagged and recorded and only twins born unassisted were kept for tups or "stud" replacements. 9 tup lambs kept last year - down to 6 now as I gradually cull any I don't like the look of, or go lame. 22 of the original 40 did well enough to get another year of "luxury", 18 nice gimmers added.

This time last year I bought an Innovis NCC at Carlisle - not sure how high I value their indices but they are undoubtedly forage fed. Not fully drawn next year's stock yet but there should be 11 tup lambs to choose from if they've all survived the summer on the hill.

I should add that contrary to the OP my flock aren't pedigree.

 

[AftonShepherd]

Not as far as I’m aware. There was an attempt, a good while ago, to express the overall index values in terms of £.
iirc Suffolks adopted it, Texels adopted it but dropped it quickly, while we (Charollais) rejected it outright.

There has been a new ebv calculated this year, off the back of slaughter data incorporated from RamCompare. That ebv attempts to put a £ value on it, taking into account carcass weight, carcass value and days to slaughter. I would question the actual figure, but there was around £10/lamb difference between the best and worst of the 400 rams used on RamCompare.

I will take this opportunity to (again) mention that one of mine topped it.

I'm pretty sure I noticed the other day that Innovis are indexing their Cheviots by a £ value, some of the cheaper ones are only -£5!

 

[ringi]

This time last year I bought an Innovis NCC at Carlisle - not sure how high I value their indices but they are undoubtedly forage fed.

Unlike Innovis's own composites, the index for their NCC will include data collected on their rams after being sold to many other proformance recording breeders.

 

[ringi]

I'm pretty sure I noticed the other day that Innovis are indexing their Cheviots by a £ value, some of the cheaper ones are only -£5!

See https://signetdata.com/news/posts/2023/june/economic-expression-of-hill-index/

 

[Toby Rochester]

Unfortunately a lot of farmers only say they want functional rams but then consistently spend good money on overfed monsters that melt away and invariably die leaving little to show for their brief time in the flock.

Is this going to be a hobby. As in you like going to shows and the social side. If you are setting up a flock I take it you don't have any at the moment. You will need a flock no if not already got one. Department for that.

Yes and no. It's not my day job I do have other stuff going on but i dont come from a family with land ive managed to get myself a wee bit of land to use and my parents have also just secured abit of land so will be involved with their commercial flock on their land and a pedigree flock on mine I am slowly working towards a farm tenancy but working with what I have to get my name out and such. Have CPH number and everything sorted and speaking to the breed society at the minute regarding registering a flock and such.

 

[Toby Rochester]

If you're only wanting a small flock for showing and selling, then maybe the in-lamb ewe sale at Lockerbie in February would be a place to start. They will be fed obviously, but if you're wanting to sell at the big sales that's almost definitely a necessary evil.

I'm going the opposite route and trying to develop a small stud flock that not only survive, but raise strong lambs without any unnecessary expensive inputs. BUT I have no interest in showing or selling at breeding sales, merely want something that's going to thrive on my hills.

I'll definitely give it a look thanks. Definitely will be focused on a hardy flock for the future the land I'm working with at the minute is very nice and sheltered so it's not an immediate issue but in terms of building up more land in my area I'll definitely end up with hill ground. In my experience on farms around here hill cheviots get on well but if they really struggle ill keep the Cheviot flock small and go with blackies or mules for a more hardy commercial flock

 

[AftonShepherd]

I'll definitely give it a look thanks. Definitely will be focused on a hardy flock for the future the land I'm working with at the minute is very nice and sheltered so it's not an immediate issue but in terms of building up more land in my area I'll definitely end up with hill ground. In my experience on farms around here hill cheviots get on well but if they really struggle ill keep the Cheviot flock small and go with blackies or mules for a more hardy commercial flock

Depends on the ground and what job you're wanting them to do, but other than heather the right hill Cheviot should be every bit as good as a blackie and a lot hardier (but not as twinny) than a mule.

 

[Woolless]

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J R & N R Hulme
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Pikesend Farm
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That's @easyram1 and his NZ Texels.